Negative reps question

[LSeca]

Anyone have experience or insight on how effective negatives are?

I was talked into doing them last chest/arm workout. 2 days later, I have a very deep tissue soreness not unlike when I started working out years ago. Are negatives safe and are they a good way to break through a plateau?

Btw, my goals are body shaping and adding some mass. Being able to lift/move more weight is secondary.

 

[Soph]

Originally Posted by LSeca

Anyone have experience or insight on how effective negatives are?

I was talked into doing them last chest/arm workout. 2 days later, I have a very deep tissue soreness not unlike when I started working out years ago. Are negatives safe and are they a good way to break through a plateau?

Btw, my goals are body shaping and adding some mass. Being able to lift/move more weight is secondary.

eccentric movements cause more type II muscle twitch hypertrophy. You are a PERFECT example of what I've been saying for awhile now. Size is not entirely correlated with strength. strength is a function of nerve force output whereas size greatly results from genetics, nutrition and eccentric movements.

Negatives also allow:
1. to train with less weight and better form
2. can gain more size without the dangers of heavy weight on ligaments and tendons

I train with suprisingly light weight relative to my size. I rarely go over 85 lb dumbells for bench. That's only 170 max. You can see my pics on the pictures thread.

GAIN with less chance of injury. Especially with dumbbells over straightbars.

 

[LSeca]

Soph,

Thanks for the reply. What is a good frequency for negative training, once a month, every week, etc. I ask this because I know I did some serious muscle break-down (don't know the technical term) and the recovery will take longer. As I said earlier, I have a very deep soreness like I just started working out for the first time.

 

[yerfdog]

is this topic about pure negatives (or whatever the correct term is), where you have a partner really help you lift the weight up (assuming you are, for instance, benching) and then you let it down in a controlled manner, after you've already worked to exhaustion and can't lift that weight up at all?

or is it about the form where you let the weight down slowly and then push it up quickly (i used to do this with lighter weight/higher reps 3 count down, 1 count up at the end of a workout, when i had a partner)

 

[Valgar]

Originally Posted by Soph

Size is not entirely correlated with strength. strength is a function of nerve force output whereas size greatly results from genetics, nutrition and eccentric movements.

Do you have any articles with more information on this?

 

[LSeca]

Originally Posted by yerfdog

is this topic about pure negatives (or whatever the correct term is), where you have a partner really help you lift the weight up (assuming you are, for instance, benching) and then you let it down in a controlled manner, after you've already worked to exhaustion and can't lift that weight up at all?

This is what I am talking about...I may not be using the correct terminology. We actually had two spotters lifting the weight up (on the bench press) and then you control the weight going down, using alot more than you can push upwards. I do know, that after a workout like this was the first time I really knew what muscle failure was. I could barely shift/steer my car on the way home, it was rediculous.

 

[Soph]

Concentrate On Eccentric Movements. (keep in mind this is a very slow movement, it doesn't impress novices or help your ego much at all, but use intellgence over societal weightlifting norms)

Eccentric training is the opposite of concentric training. It means lengthening a muscle as opposed to shortening it. In other words, eccentric training on the bench press means deliberately slowing the descent of the bar. It's been shown to cause more muscle cell damage. Why? No one really knows for sure. It even puzzles muscle physiologists. After all, why should lengthening a muscle—the very act for which it was designed—cause damage? Nevertheless, it does, and that's why every workout should incorporate an eccentric component. Most novices in the gym train like the old ball and paddle game—they slap the weight up using a quick movement, ensuring lots of momentum, and watch as the weight flies up and then falls back, courtesy of gravity. Most novices just try to make sure it doesn't fly back and hit them in the face. The faster they go, the more intense they think they're working out. Pathetic.

The upward and downward portion of every movement must be slow and deliberate, and there are a couple of reasons for this. First of all, research has shown that the lifting portion of a movement recruits the most muscle fibers when it's performed slowly. This translates to about two seconds for most movements. The eccentric portion of the movement should be even slower, occurring optimally over four seconds. This takes into consideration the fact that eccentric movements are easier anyhow, since they have the added advantage of having both friction and gravity to help them. Secondly, slow strength training provides more time to activate both muscle fiber types—fast and slow—resulting in greater force production. And thirdly, eccentric motor activities produce two to three times the force of concentric activities. Therefore, they cause more muscle damage and in turn provide the cellular signal to degenerate and regenerate a new fiber. Given that all other conditions are favorable, the muscle cell will grow back bigger and stronger.

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by Soph

every workout should incorporate an eccentric component.
+1. Terrific post BTW, Soph.

 

[savage]

+1. Awesome post.

Where can I learn more about this??

 

[knucks]

Originally Posted by Valgar

Do you have any articles with more information on this?
no, just living proof.