Interview with Antonio Ciongoli of Eidos Napoli, Part 1

[YRR92]

As someone who dresses nearly exclusively in blues and greys, I gotta say that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of shades thereof.

And at least fifty shades of gray.

If 2012 calls asking for that joke back, tell them I just left.

EDIT:

TGG,

Why do you say a silhouette is the last thing people look at for an evening formal event? I've never attended one as anything other than a clotheshorse, so of course I've paid attention to silhouettes.

 

[LA Guy]

I agree 100% with the bolded, but my impression is still that a Pitti stand has nearly as much in common with a gallery show as it does with a sales floor. It's like the "director's cut" of the line, right? I mean, the jacket in question didn't get picked up, but an easier-to-sell version of it did. The artistic/creative component at Pitti is given a bit more free reign than it is in the real world.

Also, I think we're in a really strong moment for "art as commodity," which is following a fairly strong historical period of "art for art's sake." We end up having an odd perspective on how art should function, which is often partially grounded in the mechanics of the art business.

I think that the analogy to a "director's cut" is pretty apt, except that what is shown is usually an abbreviated collection, while a director's cut is usually filled with extras (see Bladerunner). There is definitely some give and take between retailers and vendors (Antonio can speak more to his own practice), and the degree of flexibility seems to vary depending on the relationship between the vendor and the retailer. I don't know the second thing about a galllery show, so I won't comment on that. A lot of designers decry the fact that some of their favorite pieces never make it to production, and are only found on the backs of models and of fans who buy things at sample sales, if that's what you mean.

All that said, I don't really feel that the central piece being discussed here is really that outlandish.

 

[thegreatgatsby]



Why do you say a silhouette is the last thing people look at for an evening formal event? I've never attended one as anything other than a clotheshorse, so of course I've paid attention to silhouettes.

YRR92 -
A few thoughts - first, with a DB blazer, unless it's buttoned up, there's not much of a silhouette to speak of. Second - if you're going to a formal, late night event (such as a formal dinner), you're more sitting down (eating, drinking, smoking) than you are standing and moving...and when you do, the jacket comes off. There's a photo of Daniel Craig in a diamond patterned evening jacket - walking into a red carpet event - and he looks like an over-stuffed sausage casing [and how many of us are attending red carpet events...and how many of us wish to live our lives as sausage casings?]

 

[LA Guy]

And at least fifty shades of gray.

If 2012 calls asking for that joke back, tell them I just left.

EDIT:

TGG,

Why do you say a silhouette is the last thing people look at for an evening formal event? I've never attended one as anything other than a clotheshorse, so of course I've paid attention to silhouettes.

Wow, way to kill a joke. My wife does the same thing, so no worries.

Yeah, silhouette is critical in evening wear. I mean, to someone who cares about clothes, of course, but that should go without saying. Not sure where @thegreatgatsby got the idea otherwise...

 

[YRR92]

I think that the analogy to a "director's cut" is pretty apt, except that what is shown is usually an abbreviated collection, while a director's cut is usually filled with extras (see Bladerunner). There is definitely some give and take between retailers and vendors (Antonio can speak more to his own practice), and the degree of flexibility seems to vary depending on the relationship between the vendor and the retailer. I don't know the second thing about a galllery show, so I won't comment on that. A lot of designers decry the fact that some of their favorite pieces never make it to production, and are only found on the backs of models and of fans who buy things at sample sales, if that's what you mean.

That's about the impression I have, yep.

And it's not that outlandish in my book, either. I want it, but I don't quite have the lifestyle for it.

 

[LA Guy]

YRR92 -
A few thoughts - first, with a DB blazer, unless its buttoned up, there's not much of a silhouette to speak of. Second - if you're going to a formal, late night event (such as a formal dinner), you're more sitting down (eating, drinking, smoking) than you are standing and moving...and when you do, the jacket comes off. There's a photo of Daniel Craig in a diamond patterned evening jacket - walking into a red carpet event - and he looks like an over-stuffed sausage casing [and how many of us are attending red carpet events...and how many of us wish to live our lives as sausage casings?]

Although you may, generally, you are not supposed to take off your jacket at any time during the evening, unless you are getting undressed back at your house or hotel room. Also, traditionally, there is a lot of standing up socializing during evening events, and for some events, dancing. Also, generally, a double breasted jacket is worn buttoned up. it can be cut to look good open, but generally, it's meant to be worn done up.

I mean, whatever. It's 2014, and if everyone takes off their jackets at midnight and starts swinging them around their heads (this has happened, btw), then okay, all bets are off.

 

[LA Guy]

That's about the impression I have, yep.
And it's not that outlandish in my book, either. I want it, but I don't quite have the lifestyle for it.

I get really bored at most evening events. Maybe I'm a homebody, but most of the time, I'd rather be in my lounge clothes, chilling out at home, or occasionally, at a quiet place, having a drink with some friends (if I was reporting back about the Pitti shenanigans rather than @Synthese , there would be a lot of entries like "We were really tired after the expo, so I went home, ordered room service (the pasta was delicious, the steak, underwhelming, and worked on the forum,) but that is neither here not there.

 

[emptym]



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Always happy to get a dialogue started. First of the jacket is not a plaid and reads as a highly textured solid IRL that is also less bright than the photo as well.

The styling here was never meant for a traditional formal setting and it is certainly not meant for every guy. That said, if you take a look back at some Apparel Arts resort sketches, you'll find looks like this were fairly commonplace. You think it looks bad and tacky. I think it would look incredibly stylish on the right guy in the right setting. The guy and the setting are crucial here. I couldn't wear it but I know people who could and places where it would make sense. Its all about context.

Finally, re: "huge, grandiose lapels" - Run a quick google image search of Fred Astaire tuxedo and I think you'll find a historical antecedent here. If you find those proportions to be screaming for attention and classless then consider me tacky.
Mannequins are not people. Where some men have an innate sense of stylishness that lends character to what they wear, a mannequin is a blank slate and all about the clothes. With this in mind, I usually employ lots of various tricks to give them more character and personality.

Well said, A. Fwiw, I really like what you're doing w/ Eidos. I recently braved a trip downtown to check out the goods. Very nice stuff.

It could be our official jacket, if you guys want to take things ultra nerdy.

That would also be costly, as they'd have to be provided to all SF officials, wouldn't they?

As someone who dresses nearly exclusively in blues and greys, I gotta say that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of shades thereof.  

Whatever you do, don't post this in WAYWRN.

 

[YRR92]

YRR92 -
A few thoughts - first, with a DB blazer, unless it's buttoned up, there's not much of a silhouette to speak of. Second - if you're going to a formal, late night event (such as a formal dinner), you're more sitting down (eating, drinking, smoking) than you are standing and moving...and when you do, the jacket comes off. There's a photo of Daniel Craig in a diamond patterned evening jacket - walking into a red carpet event - and he looks like an over-stuffed sausage casing [and how many of us are attending red carpet events...and how many of us wish to live our lives as sausage casings?]

Well, an unbuttoned DB still has a silhouette. It's not going to have a prominent waist, but a rectangle is still a shape. But really, I couldn't picture wanting to wear a DB tux unbuttoned.

In my experience, most men keep their jackets on to eat dinner, but who knows? My black-tie experience is basically nil, and we may well move in different circles, but the last few suit-and-tie dinners I attended saw a significant number of men still in their coats at dinner. Also, what of the cocktail hour?

Also, how does extended shoulders + narrow waist = sausage casing? To me, the sausage effect comes from narrow shoulders, tight back and chest, and too small waist (too small not being the same as "narrow.").

I get really bored at most evening events. Maybe I'm a homebody, but most of the time, I'd rather be in my lounge clothes, chilling out at home, or occasionally, at a quiet place, having a drink with some friends (if I was reporting back about the Pitti shenanigans rather than @Synthese , there would be a lot of entries like "We were really tired after the expo, so I went home, ordered room service (the pasta was delicious, the steak, underwhelming, and worked on the forum,) but that is neither here not there.

Nah, I like big parties. My girlfriend takes your perspective, though, so I can dig it.

 

[unbelragazzo]

I'm glad this started a conversation. Some of these posts have been interesting.

First, to whoever said silhouette doesn't matter for evening wear, silhouette is more important in evening wear than in anything else IMHO. The limited palette and high contrast accentuates the silhouette.

Second, I feel like it might be a good time for me to explain why I felt drawn to this piece. I've had an interest in casual evening wear and how to incorporate black tie elements into non-black tie settings for a while now, dating at least to this thread and continuing with this post. The midnight blue velvet jacket I have works pretty well in this regard for fall/winter, but it has been hard to design a summer version. I have a double breasted cream linen jacket that I wear sometimes in this way, but 1) traditionally, this type of garment is relegated to resort, non-city wear (there's an old Wodehouse story where Jeeves reprimands Bertie for wanting to wear in London his white mess jacket bought in the Riviera) 2) in modern times, it has a strong association with waiters at "fancy" Italian restaurants. So it's something I wear with a little trepidation. I attempted to replicate the success of the velvet jacket with a mohair blend peak lapel one-button suit. The suit is nice, but I've never liked the jacket on its own.

The jacket Antonio is showing is, as he suggests, also something of a resort jacket. But contra Antonio, I think it works pretty well in the city too. Maybe styled as he has done, with natural linen pants, or perhaps with black tuxedo-type trousers and a white shirt. I think I could wear that out at night in New York and feel pretty good about it. I could even wear my velvet Belgian loafers with the silk bows.

Of course, to each his own. Maybe you feel that a tuxedo should only be worn to black tie events, and in that case it must be black or midnight blue, with all the standard trimmings (this is a very limited reading of the history of black tie btw). That's fine.

But there are, I hope, quite a few people like me, who want to wear something elegant when going out at night, that isn't a tuxedo, because wearing a tuxedo on a random night is just weird. And I agree with Antonio that the market's attempts to fill this niche have, in general, been failures. ts(s) has some things that look pretty alright if you're a streetwear guy and you want to wear a tuxedo jacket with jeans and a white t-shirt. But if your style is generally more classic, this look may not work for you. And the "creative black tie" options out there are pretty ****. I'm not going to name names or post pictures. But I thought this jacket, with the boucle' fabric and the shantung lapels, was a really valuable piece because it offers something to wear in those situations that's different and decidedly more relaxed, but not, IMHO, tacky at all. Some of you will and have disagreed. But this is why the piece interested me, and why I wanted to talk to Antonio about it.

 

[Coxsackie]

For the record, I sampled tons of navy.

Note to self: must get to Pitti one day.

 

[NickPollica]



"AC: ...I think what makes a beautiful dinner jacket or a beautiful tuxedo is very different than what makes a beautiful suit. I think dinner wear should look like dinner wear. It should have an extended shoulder, it should have a narrow waist, the lapels should be full, it should be a little bit more elevated. So there are fabrics in my mind that I think of when I think about that. But we want to innovate too. I think of this electric midnight blue as a formal fabric." Why is an extended shoulder something that a dinner jacket "should" have? Why is a "narrow waist" also necessary - given that a silhouette is often the last thing people evaluate at a late night formal event? Midnight blue - in a tux, in a dinner jacket - has been widely used for a while now...Is "electric midnight" blue then an innovation? I am fascinated by the purpose of clothes (form following function, for instance), but I don't know why some of AC's rules or should's are, in fact, musts and necessities in formal-wear. It's not clear that he does either.

First off, its important to note that this is all subjective. My opinions on evening wear are my own, although I do pride myself and the collection on a strong understanding of what has come before. Many designers do things just because they think they are "cool." I make an effort to consider the historical antecedent and ground our clothing and silhouettes there. Great dinner clothes are descendent of white tie and tails, which has broad shoulders and a waist so narrow that the jacket doesn't actually close. The best example I've ever found on the complete background of this idea come from Flusser's video on formal clothing (see below). If you have a few minutes, its definitely worth the watch.

 

[poorsod]

That's a fantastic video! Great insight to the architecture of the white tie rig and it's descendants. I think the issue with summer wear is how to make it look elegant and not wear too hot. Currently, the best alternative I have to the tux is a blue mohair suit.

 

[Tirailleur1]

First off, its important to note that this is all subjective. My opinions on evening wear are my own, although I do pride myself and the collection on a strong understanding of what has come before. Many designers do things just because they think they are "cool." I make an effort to consider the historical antecedent and ground our clothing and silhouettes there. Great dinner clothes are descendent of white tie and tails, which has broad shoulders and a waist so narrow that the jacket doesn't actually close. The best example I've ever found on the complete background of this idea come from Flusser's video on formal clothing (see below). If you have a few minutes, its definitely worth the watch.

@NickPollica

isn't speaking in the video so I doubt you will convince these skeptics

 

[dieworkwear]

While we have Antonio's ear, I was wondering if he can talk a little about the process of doing a RTW line.

Specifically, how is pattern making done at Eidos? Is it handled through Isaia, or do you have your own team for that? If it's handled through Isaia, do you have a say? What's the process like of making patterns for a RTW line?

I'm also curious about the designing and production of fabrics. I know many lines have their own textile design teams, but Eidos seems like a younger, newer, smaller operation (I don't mean that as an insult; I actually think it's kind of awesome). Do you do your own textile design, and how does that work with mills? I recently did a brown Fresco run with HFW, and frankly it took forever. I can't imagine what the process would be line for multiple fabrics, and in the kind of turnaround conditions necessary for tradeshows.

Also, I think Antonio has been in the clothing business for some time, right? Although I wouldn't consider myself in the fashion business, I had some taste of the trade in the 90s, when I worked in magazine publishing (where we had a "fashion spread," like everyone else). One of the interesting things, I think, was that lookbooks were pretty much only for industry-insiders back then. They were passed out at tradeshows, given to store and media reps in order to build industry buzz. The public rarely got to see them, with exceptions of a few high-high-end brands. Most marketing was done through street campaigns (particularly for streetwear), traditional advertising, and tie-ins with musicians (again, we're talking about streetwear here).

What's marketing like in 2014? Lookbooks nowadays are seen by the public, and seem just as part of a line's marketing campaign as anything else. Are there other ways a line communicates its "message" to the public? Does Antonio think blogs and forums have an impact on the public, or are they kind of two different spheres? Lastly, does it even matter anymore whether a line is carried by a "key" boutique? Many stores have been instrumental at introducing a line to a certain region, or even country. I don't know how that really works anymore, frankly, since so much of my shopping is online (where there's less of a hierarchy, I think).

If any of the above is too tiresome to answer, or if it's covered by David's future installments, don't worry about it. Just thought I'd ask some questions since Antonio is around and reading this thread.