Indochino suits?

[BC2012]

That's correct. I have a few Indochino suits already. The only alteration I made was to the thighs on my last order. The suit jacket that came in was completely wrong. I can sum up their QC thusly:

Suit pants were 3 inches wider in the waist than the chest measurement.

There's absolutely no reason that the suit I just received has a chest 3 inches larger and a waist 5 inches smaller than another Indochino suit (that I did not have altered) I own! Especially when the pants are fairly similar!

So, they just let me cancel $900 in suits/shirts without even trying to retain my business. Not even a "well, wait, what if we give you a discount on a future order" or anything. Especially when Black Lapel is supposedly putting out a better product with vastly superior customer service for not a ton more $. I'll take that $900 elsewhere and have them remake this last suit over and over until it fits.

 

[BC2012]

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[VinnyMac]

That's correct. I have a few Indochino suits already. The only alteration I made was to the thighs on my last order. The suit jacket that came in was completely wrong. I can sum up their QC thusly:

Suit pants were 3 inches wider in the waist than the chest measurement.

There's absolutely no reason that the suit I just received has a chest 3 inches larger and a waist 5 inches smaller than another Indochino suit (that I did not have altered) I own! Especially when the pants are fairly similar!

So, they just let me cancel $900 in suits/shirts without even trying to retain my business. Not even a "well, wait, what if we give you a discount on a future order" or anything. Especially when Black Lapel is supposedly putting out a better product with vastly superior customer service for not a ton more $. I'll take that $900 elsewhere and have them remake this last suit over and over until it fits.

I'm not saying that you were, but if you were being a dxck in your messages, then I don't blame them for not playing along. If you made absolutely no changes to the jacket measurements, then I'm not sure why it came out so different from the others. I had a similar issue, but it was my first order. I visited the Traveling Tailor, and the suit that they sent me fit EXACTLY like the boxy trial suit that they had me try on. They couldn't explain why no adjustments had been made. I was pissed off for a while, but they've been solid since then.

 

[Simon at Elite]

They tell me they cannot check on the suits in production and the only way to test them is to wait until I get them. If they don't fit they'll do a remake. What sort of company cannot do ANY QUALITY CONTROL MID-PRODUCTION?! They'd rather waste materials and shipping costs (and my time) instead of performing QC to see if the other suits are going to be drastically mis-sized? Yikes.

I think it shows just how cheaply large companies can have factory made fused canvas suits made. I think most people would be surprised that after you add in the discounts for their massive volume just how little they pay for the suits. It gets to the stage where the actual suit is only a small portion of the total cost of actually getting a suit to a customer and it works out cheaper to remake the suit rather than pulling one for production and allowing for the cost of working with a customer to get it right.

Still I'm surprised that you're having fit issues when you have purchased previously. Fit problems will always occur with MTM suits it doesn't matter if they were purchased online or in a store or tailor shop. It's the nature of the beast. However we normally find if you work with a customer to get the first suit close, problems with subsequent orders are very rare. We make very little profit (if any) with the first suit. By the time you add in the time spent sending emails backwards and forwards discussing the type of suit, fabrics and working out the measurements then add in the problems that do occur post delivery (although I have been told by people that should know these things that our error rate is extremely small compared to others in the industry) tailoring credits and and the inevitable remakes there is little left of our already slim margins.

However, the goal is to get the first suit somewhere near right and if the customer follows our instructions the second suit will fit even better and the third will fit better again and so on. Repeat business is where we make our money and we seem to do well in that area with many customer onto their fourth or fifth suit.

I actually find it hard to understand if you have the measurements for the first suit where a customer was happy with the fit why you would make drastic changes to them for the next one. I'm a fan of Indochino. I think in the space they operate they do a brilliant job but I must admit some of their attitudes towards customer measurements puzzle me

 

[BC2012]



I'm not saying that you were, but if you were being a dxck in your messages, then I don't blame them for not playing along. If you made absolutely no changes to the jacket measurements, then I'm not sure why it came out so different from the others. I had a similar issue, but it was my first order. I visited the Traveling Tailor, and the suit that they sent me fit EXACTLY like the boxy trial suit that they had me try on. They couldn't explain why no adjustments had been made. I was pissed off for a while, but they've been solid since then.

I definitely wasn't rude. I was more upset as the email chain went on, though (understandably, I think).

As a company, they have zero quality control, that's obvious - your experience shows this, as well. They also have a pretty lousy business ethic based on this and other experiences with them.

I'm fine with going to another company. I'm just shocked at their absolute rigidity and lack of care. They are so robotic in their responses.

 

[BC2012]



Repeat business is where we make our money... some of their attitudes towards customer measurements puzzle me

That's what puzzled me, as well. In any role I've ever had, be it working at a small retail shop in high school or in my current management role at a Fortune 100, repeat business is the lifeblood of most any industry. They simply didn't care for mine. Maybe I'm more of a headache than they want, who knows. I'm sure another business will take my money and appreciate the fact that I want a quality experience and that I'm willing to pay for it.

 

[Simon at Elite]

. I visited the Traveling Tailor, and the suit that they sent me fit EXACTLY like the boxy trial suit that they had me try on.

I do recommend working with a tailor however many people think that once they have a tailor measure them their suit will fit perfectly. I've had some amazingly abusive emails from customers complaining that their suits didn't fit however once I send them back a copy of their measurements and ask them to compare the measurements with the finished suit it's surprising how the tone of their subsequent emails changes from the first.

I had one customer visit a tailor and send us a sleeve measurements that was obviously going to be at least 6cm too short. We told him three times the measurement was wrong but he insisted that it was correct. It got to the point where I told him that we would make the suit but exclude the sleeves from the standard guarantee.

So we sent the suit and of course the sleeves were comically short. This guy sent me one of the foulest and most abusive emails I have ever received, threatened me with everything and actually accused me of deliberately making the sleeves shorter just to prove my point. After waiting 24 hours I sent him a reply suggesting it may have been a good idea to measure the sleeve length of the suit before sending the email. It turned out that the tailor (who was so concerned about the sleeve length that he actually asked us if the customer had some deformity when we told him that we had confirmed the measurement) had added 2cm to the length that the customer had requested.

Anyway, I ended up remaking the suit and since then the customer has bought another and a few shirts so eventually it all worked out in the end.

The point is that visiting a tailor is certainly a good idea but it's still no guarantee. We have a process to check measurements and we still pick up many errors in those done by tailors and while it does help minimise errors it doesn't eliminate them completely.

 

[charliebrown2]

That's what puzzled me, as well. In any role I've ever had, be it working at a small retail shop in high school or in my current management role at a Fortune 100, repeat business is the lifeblood of most any industry. They simply didn't care for mine. Maybe I'm more of a headache than they want, who knows. I'm sure another business will take my money and appreciate the fact that I want a quality experience and that I'm willing to pay for it.

Exactly. I understand that I was probably one of their more difficult customers, but I expected them to be willing to put in that initial work of working with me so that we can both mutually benefit down the road. But nope. Maybe they've grown big enough that customer service isn't a top priority anymore.

 

[VinnyMac]

I do recommend working with a tailor however many people think that once they have a tailor measure them their suit will fit perfectly. I've had some amazingly abusive emails from customers complaining that their suits didn't fit however once I send them back a copy of their measurements and ask them to compare the measurements with the finished suit it's surprising how the tone of their subsequent emails changes from the first.

I had one customer visit a tailor and send us a sleeve measurements that was obviously going to be at least 6cm too short. We told him three times the measurement was wrong but he insisted that it was correct. It got to the point where I told him that we would make the suit but exclude the sleeves from the standard guarantee.

So we sent the suit and of course the sleeves were comically short. This guy sent me one of the foulest and most abusive emails I have ever received, threatened me with everything and actually accused me of deliberately making the sleeves shorter just to prove my point. After waiting 24 hours I sent him a reply suggesting it may have been a good idea to measure the sleeve length of the suit before sending the email. It turned out that the tailor (who was so concerned about the sleeve length that he actually asked us if the customer had some deformity when we told him that we had confirmed the measurement) had added 2cm to the length that the customer had requested.

Anyway, I ended up remaking the suit and since then the customer has bought another and a few shirts so eventually it all worked out in the end.

The point is that visiting a tailor is certainly a good idea but it's still no guarantee. We have a process to check measurements and we still pick up many errors in those done by tailors and while it does help minimise errors it doesn't eliminate them completely.

For clarification, I visted Indochino's traveling tailor. I understand what you're saying. If I'd strong-armed my measurements into the production facility, then that would be my fault (similar to the gent' in your message), but if you can't trust the work of the person who the company pays to take measurements, then that's completely the company's fault. The suit that they sent me literally fit the same way as the "box suit" that I tried on at the event. The wait was close to a foot too wide. The shirt's neck was approximately 6 inches too big. The chest and waist of both the jacket and shirt were several inches too wide as well. I'd have had better results if I measured myself.

For the sake of full-disclosure, the items that I've bought from them since then (with my adjustments) have fit much better...perfect? No, but much better.

 

[VinnyMac]

Exactly. I understand that I was probably one of their more difficult customers, but I expected them to be willing to put in that initial work of working with me so that we can both mutually benefit down the road. But nope. Maybe they've grown big enough that customer service isn't a top priority anymore.

Being difficult doesn't get you anywhere when you're communicating entirely by phone or email. All that they have to do is hang-up/not respond. Being upset about the outcome of your purchase is fine, but aggressive emails and phone calls usually won't get you anywhere. You're not going to get any extra empathy effort with a bad attitude.

 

[charliebrown2]

Being difficult doesn't get you anywhere when you're communicating entirely by phone or email. All that they have to do is hang-up/not respond. Being upset about the outcome of your purchase is fine, but aggressive emails and phone calls usually won't get you anywhere. You're not going to get any extra empathy effort with a bad attitude.

By "difficult" I was referring to the complexity of my situation, not my attitude or aggression. I believe the attitude, on both my end and theirs, were completely professional. I am, however, disappointed at the outcome and their unwillingness to "work through" the initial stages for new customers. Especially in this respective industry, where it's all about putting in the work and effort up front in hopes of a rewarding future (repeat business).

You've had the same experience, right? You had to get over your initial "boxy experience", but now you're a supporter. Unfortunately, I won't be.

 

[VinnyMac]

By "difficult" I was referring to the complexity of my situation, not my attitude or aggression. I believe the attitude, on both my end and theirs, were completely professional. I am, however, disappointed at the outcome and their unwillingness to "work through" the initial stages for new customers. Especially in this respective industry, where it's all about putting in the work and effort up front in hopes of a rewarding future (repeat business).

You've had the same experience, right? You had to get over your initial "boxy experience", but now you're a supporter. Unfortunately, I won't be.

To each her/his own. These online mtm companies are hit or miss. You can find the same complaints directed towards just about any one of them. A lot of it just comes down to whether this is for you or not.

 

[charliebrown2]

To each her/his own. These online mtm companies are hit or miss. You can find the same complaints directed towards just about any one of them. A lot of it just comes down to whether this is for you or not.

Agreed. I'm glad they're working out for you now. Best of luck.

 

[N0Direction]

I think it's amusing how the stark difference in expectations leads to such immense differences in satisfaction levels. Although I understand your positions, for those of you who've been unhappy, listen to my experience and tell me if you'd feel any different to me considering...

My first few suit experiences when I was just out of high school was to buy the cheap on-sale rack items from my local mens-wear shop. For $100 (down from $200!!) you get a fit that sort of resembles a hessian sack jacket with flare pants that could have been your uncles. The material is scratchy, the colour off, and yet you feel great to have purchased your first suit. Granted, I was brought up in lower-class Australia, and beggars can't be choosers, but I was happy enough but soon realised that my outfit wasn't going to cut it when I finished uni.

While I was at uni I was working in a call-centre role, but as soon as I finished & had my 'piece of paper', my company quite swiftly promoted me. Now I needed a more acceptable piece of cloth. I wasn't doing too badly in my $150 no-name sale suit - someone at my work liked my dress sense enough to approach me about buying the same suit for her fiance for their wedding - but I knew I could do better. So with a $400 gift card prize from work I bought an Italian number from one of the bigger department stores. When I put that on today it looks perfect across the shoulders but 2 sizes too big everywhere else, but the salesman made sure I felt like a gentleman & I was happy. But again, I knew there was better, and so I turned to custom.

The cheapest custom option available locally (half-canvas) took 7 fittings, with sub-par materials, at $800 each, to give me 2 suits I was mostly happy with. The first tailor I saw afterwards, however, was quick to point out how many flaws there were in the design and make. Now I felt horribly ripped off. That tailor (a shirt maker) recommended an Italian friend of his. $1600 for some quality Itallian milled materials, fully canvassed... but. And there was a but. If you buy a suit from this 75-yr-old Italian master, he makes it his way. You can ASK for a peak lapel, and he'll tell you why it's not stylish for someone of my age. Slim the legs? He'll tell you how that's too fashion forward, and isn't worth it because the suit will be out of date in 2 years. Waist suppression? That will make the suit hang poorly, being fully canvassed, so you don't want that. In other words, this was to be a suit that was custom-made FOR me, not with me, and not for ME. I forked over the $1600 and walked away feeling like I was wearing a very well made sack. I think I'd look fantastic as an extra in the Great Gatsby or Boardwalk Empire, but I still feel like I'm wearing my father's suit.

That's when I heard about online made-to-measure. I searched around and Indochino seemed to be the cheapest/quality combination available. There were some cheaper, but the reviews and the horrible figures in their example photos made me baulk. There were some that appeared higher quality (e.g. Black Lapel), but they were more expensive without offering THAT much better results. Especially since this was my first online MTM experience, I didn't want to fork out too much. So I gave Indochino a go.

Fast forward 6 months and I've now had 3 remakes on my first Indochino suit, and an alteration, and another remake on my second suit. And I'm ecstatic. Both of these final suits fit MUCH better than all my other suits (in fact other than the $1600 Italian number - which I'll keep for job interviews - all my other suits are in the local clothing bin, including the two $800 ones). And the customisation options on my Indochino suits are EXACTLY what I wanted. Well, sort of. My first suit arrived with it's contrast button holes (silver on navy) and it looked offensive. They were over the top. So when I emailed customer service about the horrible fit that first time, and lamented the contrast buttonholes, they said "no problems!" and they removed them for the remake. GREAT customer service.
Now I get looks & compliments at least once a day (I'm starting to wonder if I should revert back to one of my 'sacksuits', it's starting to get out of hand), and I feel great. Should I feel bad that it took 4 remakes to get to this position? Based on my past experiences with tailors who've had 7-fittings-worth of chances, I can't see why.


TLDR? Expectations define satisfaction. I'm very happy with my Indochino experience.

 

[VinnyMac]

Well, differences in expectations lead to differing levels of satisfaction for everything, not just suits. That almost goes without saying, haha. I can see how your experiences could have had an impact on your willingness to cooperate and wait for your Indochino suit. The customer service issues and number of fittings probably helped to make you much more receptive to the friendly customer service and number of remakes that came along with Indochino.

With that being said, if you needed 4 remakes on one suit, then a big part of the mistake was probably yours; I'd guess that you entered the wrong measurements or customizations. If it was all their fault, most people (including me) would have given up long before the 4th remake.

When it comes down to it, you get what you pay for. When you go for cheap, it's hit or miss. There's usually a reason for why things are discounted or sold at bargain prices. If you're expecting to get "the real thing," then you have to pay for it or at least be willing to do a little bit of extra work to fix up the discount version that you bought. If you want perfect, then you have to put your money where your mouth is. If you won't do that (and most people won't), then you have to shut your trap and be patient.

...pictures of you wearing the suits?