Grammar/Spelling/Syntax/English lessons

[Mr. Checks]

Periods and commas go inside the quotation marks.

 

[whoopee]

At least for American grammar. It seems to me somewhat illogical. Should the period to follow really be inside the quotation marks: I enjoy Marlowe's "Hero and Leander." I think not.

 

[j]

Originally Posted by Mr. Checks

Periods and commas go inside the quotation marks.
I think this was on the thread we lost, and I disagree that it is a hard-and-fast rule.

"Hicks", "rednecks", and "the unsophisticated" prefer inferior service.
When words/phrases are in scare quotes, or are in quotation marks to denote the unusual use of the word, or as a citation, etc., I don't think the commas should be in the quotes. (do not check this sentence for parallel construction Bob)

"I have begun," he said, "to go insane."
In this case, it makes sense to me. However, if the quotation itself doesn't include a comma or the end of a sentence, why would it be in the quotation marks?

 

[j]

Originally Posted by whoopee

At least for American grammar. It seems to me somewhat illogical. Should the period to follow really be inside the quotation marks: I enjoy Marlowe's "Hero and Leander." I think not.
Same here.

 

[Kevin]

Punctuation inside quotations is primarily an Associated Press style rule. I don't believe it's applicable in all instances.

 

[faustian bargain]

Originally Posted by j

I think this was on the thread we lost, and I disagree that it is a hard-and-fast rule. "Hicks", "rednecks", and "the unsophisticated" prefer inferior service. When words/phrases are in scare quotes, or are in quotation marks to denote the unusual use of the word, or as a citation, etc., I don't think the commas should be in the quotes. (do not check this sentence for parallel construction Bob) "I have begun," he said, "to go insane." In this case, it makes sense to me. However, if the quotation itself doesn't include a comma or the end of a sentence, why would it be in the quotation marks?
totally agreed. ellipses (singular: ellipsis) - use three dots to denote a broken quote within a sentence, four dots for a quote that goes to, or includes, the end of a sentence. can't remember where i learned that - is it a real rule? it's what i do, anyway.

 

[RJman]

compliment used instead of complement. One can select a pocket square in complementary colors to one's outfit; it is not an animate object and cannot compliment your ensemble.

 

[whoopee]

Personification.

 

[shoreman1782]

Which begs the question

Ah, but it does not.

I dislike using "if you will" or "as it were" when you really just mean "uh..."

I don't like beginning a sentence with "There is/are..." or "It is..."

I've broken with some of my grammar/writing teachers on some things. For example, I think a comma should almost always be used after the last item in a series before "and" (the serial comma).

Some rules that are taught as standard come from the AP style guide or have other publishing provenance, and the point of some of these rules is saving space on paper. Luckily, on the internets, we don't have to worry about that.

 

[rdawson808]

Originally Posted by shoreman1782

Ah, but it does not.



Thank you. I now have a name to put to what my students constantly do. They just do not get this logical fallacy. It is maddening.


bob

 

[rdawson808]

Originally Posted by shoreman1782

Some rules that are taught as standard come from the AP style guide or have other publishing provenance, and the point of some of these rules is saving space on paper. Luckily, on the internets, we don't have to worry about that.


I have to admit that I have never heard of the AP style guide, nor have I heard anyone reference it before. I would think that the AP style guide is for journalism only. Journalism style often differs from academic style (the serial comma is the best example, I think).

The reference I see most often is students following MLA guidelines for references, etc. when I tell them to use something else. Pun intended, btw.

bob

 

[faustian bargain]

HAHA:

 

[Mute]

Please also remember that it's a moot point, not a mute point. Please don't use my online name in vain.

 

[faustian bargain]

effect vs. affect. get it right! Rule 1. Use effect when you mean bring about or brought about, cause or caused. Example He effected a commotion in the crowd. Meaning He caused a commotion in the crowd. Rule 2. Use effect when you mean result. Example What effect did that speech have? Rule 3. Also use effect whenever any of these words precede it: a an any the take into no Note: These words may be separated from effect by an adjective. Examples That book had a long-lasting effect on my thinking. Has the medicine produced any noticeable effects? Rule 4. Use the verb affect when you mean to influence rather than to cause. Example How do the budget cuts affect your staffing? Rule 5. Affect is used as a noun to mean emotional expression. Example She showed little affect when told she had won the lottery. Are you ready for the quiz?

 

[Nantucket Red]

I hate this construction with a buring passion that cannot be assuaged.

"What it is is" is a construction I believe I first started hearing in the early 80s. It grated on my nerves from the very first and I vowed never to use it. Unfortunately, when thoughtless constructions like this become widespread, they become infectious and you have to make a concentrated effort to avoid using them.

For a **** topping, add "it's," eg.: "What it is is, it's a way of sounding like an utter moron."