Grammar/Spelling/Syntax/English lessons

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by j, May 12, 2006.

  1. Mr. Checks

    Mr. Checks Senior member

    Messages:
    1,279
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Location:
    Here
    Periods and commas go inside the quotation marks.
     
  2. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

    Messages:
    2,455
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    At least for American grammar. It seems to me somewhat illogical. Should the period to follow really be inside the quotation marks: I enjoy Marlowe's "Hero and Leander." I think not.
     
  3. j

    j (stands for Jerk) Admin

    Messages:
    14,914
    Likes Received:
    93
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Periods and commas go inside the quotation marks.
    I think this was on the thread we lost, and I disagree that it is a hard-and-fast rule.

    "Hicks", "rednecks", and "the unsophisticated" prefer inferior service.
    When words/phrases are in scare quotes, or are in quotation marks to denote the unusual use of the word, or as a citation, etc., I don't think the commas should be in the quotes. (do not check this sentence for parallel construction Bob)

    "I have begun," he said, "to go insane."
    In this case, it makes sense to me. However, if the quotation itself doesn't include a comma or the end of a sentence, why would it be in the quotation marks?
     
  4. j

    j (stands for Jerk) Admin

    Messages:
    14,914
    Likes Received:
    93
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    At least for American grammar. It seems to me somewhat illogical. Should the period to follow really be inside the quotation marks: I enjoy Marlowe's "Hero and Leander." I think not.
    Same here.
     
  5. Kevin

    Kevin Senior member

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    May 9, 2004
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Punctuation inside quotations is primarily an Associated Press style rule. I don't believe it's applicable in all instances.
     
  6. faustian bargain

    faustian bargain Senior member

    Messages:
    2,523
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Location:
    Bay Area
    I think this was on the thread we lost, and I disagree that it is a hard-and-fast rule. "Hicks", "rednecks", and "the unsophisticated" prefer inferior service. When words/phrases are in scare quotes, or are in quotation marks to denote the unusual use of the word, or as a citation, etc., I don't think the commas should be in the quotes. (do not check this sentence for parallel construction Bob) "I have begun," he said, "to go insane." In this case, it makes sense to me. However, if the quotation itself doesn't include a comma or the end of a sentence, why would it be in the quotation marks?
    totally agreed. ellipses (singular: ellipsis) - use three dots to denote a broken quote within a sentence, four dots for a quote that goes to, or includes, the end of a sentence. can't remember where i learned that - is it a real rule? it's what i do, anyway.
     
  7. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    18,647
    Likes Received:
    102
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Location:
    In the not too distant future
    compliment used instead of complement. One can select a pocket square in complementary colors to one's outfit; it is not an animate object and cannot compliment your ensemble.
     
  8. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

    Messages:
    2,455
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Personification.
     
  9. shoreman1782

    shoreman1782 Senior member

    Messages:
    8,748
    Likes Received:
    6,806
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Location:
    DMV
    Ah, but it does not.

    I dislike using "if you will" or "as it were" when you really just mean "uh..."

    I don't like beginning a sentence with "There is/are..." or "It is..."

    I've broken with some of my grammar/writing teachers on some things. For example, I think a comma should almost always be used after the last item in a series before "and" (the serial comma).

    Some rules that are taught as standard come from the AP style guide or have other publishing provenance, and the point of some of these rules is saving space on paper. Luckily, on the internets, we don't have to worry about that.
     
  10. rdawson808

    rdawson808 Senior member

    Messages:
    4,226
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Location:
    The Capital
    Ah, but it does not.



    Thank you. I now have a name to put to what my students constantly do. They just do not get this logical fallacy. It is maddening.


    bob
     
  11. rdawson808

    rdawson808 Senior member

    Messages:
    4,226
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Location:
    The Capital
    Some rules that are taught as standard come from the AP style guide or have other publishing provenance, and the point of some of these rules is saving space on paper. Luckily, on the internets, we don't have to worry about that.


    I have to admit that I have never heard of the AP style guide, nor have I heard anyone reference it before. I would think that the AP style guide is for journalism only. Journalism style often differs from academic style (the serial comma is the best example, I think).

    The reference I see most often is students following MLA guidelines for references, etc. when I tell them to use something else. Pun intended, btw. [​IMG]

    bob
     
  12. faustian bargain

    faustian bargain Senior member

    Messages:
    2,523
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Location:
    Bay Area
    HAHA: [​IMG]
     
  13. Mute

    Mute Senior member

    Messages:
    1,108
    Likes Received:
    50
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Location:
    L.A.
    Please also remember that it's a moot point, not a mute point. Please don't use my online name in vain.
     
  14. faustian bargain

    faustian bargain Senior member

    Messages:
    2,523
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Location:
    Bay Area
    effect vs. affect. get it right! Rule 1. Use effect when you mean bring about or brought about, cause or caused. Example He effected a commotion in the crowd. Meaning He caused a commotion in the crowd. Rule 2. Use effect when you mean result. Example What effect did that speech have? Rule 3. Also use effect whenever any of these words precede it: a an any the take into no Note: These words may be separated from effect by an adjective. Examples That book had a long-lasting effect on my thinking. Has the medicine produced any noticeable effects? Rule 4. Use the verb affect when you mean to influence rather than to cause. Example How do the budget cuts affect your staffing? Rule 5. Affect is used as a noun to mean emotional expression. Example She showed little affect when told she had won the lottery. Are you ready for the quiz?
     
  15. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red "Mr. Fashionista"

    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    15
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Location:
    Upper East Coast
    I hate this construction with a buring passion that cannot be assuaged.

    "What it is is" is a construction I believe I first started hearing in the early 80s. It grated on my nerves from the very first and I vowed never to use it. Unfortunately, when thoughtless constructions like this become widespread, they become infectious and you have to make a concentrated effort to avoid using them.

    For a shit topping, add "it's," eg.: "What it is is, it's a way of sounding like an utter moron."
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by