Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures)

[CLTesquire]

He already did:

“not only the pegged waist and machine stitched outsole, and not close to the same level of finishing.”

“Not only” implies there are more reasons than the ones states directly after, thus my question. But thanks.

Edit...I'm not trying to be a dick to you, just genuinely curious as to the differences beyond pegged waist/handstitch outsole.

 

[Encore]

“Not only” implies there are more reasons than the ones states directly after, thus my question. But thanks.

Edit...I'm not trying to be a dick to you, just genuinely curious as to the differences beyond pegged waist/handstitch outsole.

No worries, I didn’t take it the wrong way, thought you missed that part.

I see what you meant, I am not knowledgeable enough to explain every single difference, probably should let jasper do it

 

[j ingevaldsson]

If you’re willing to explain I’d love to understand the difference.

There's quite a lot, but I can go through some just to give you an idea (with reservations of that I can have got some details wrong. And note, I only go through things with larger differences here, there's much more to the making a shoe by hand than this):

• StC has prepped insoles which has edges trimmed off and holdfast carved out - G&G cuts out the pieces needed from full thickness shoulder leather, extensive trimming is done, then holdfast is carved out.
• StC has prepped backings and finished heel and toe stiffeners - G&G cut out own backings from thin leather which is skived and trimmed, and cut stiffeners from the full thickness shoulder leather as used for the insole, which is heavily skived, trimmed and sanded to suit the specific shoe.
• StC has finished welts with pre-carved seam channel - G&G takes full thickness leather, cut rough and split it to correct thickness, then cut out the correct size and carve out the seam channel.
• StC takes a finished thread treat it with pitch and stitch the welt seam 270° and peg the heel part - G&G takes around eight thinner threads and twist them together themselves together with pitch and stitch the welt seam 270° plus stitch the heel part.
• StC builds up shank cover and bevelling base with prepped parts - G&G cuts out parts from full thickness leather and shape the shank cover and bevelling base.
• StC has a pre-cut outsole which they prep with a grinding machine - G&G cuts out the outsole from full thickness leather and prep it by skiving and sanding it by hand.
• StC peg the waist - G&G stitch the waist by hand and hide the stitching with the edge of the sole, a so called blind welt
• StC do the sole stitch from the waist forward with machine and though decorative stitch pricking afterwards (not matching the seams, only for look) - G&G fudge the welt, do the sole stitch by hand, stitch prick each stitch so it's compressed and further strengthened, then fudge wheel again.
• StC has a pre-made split lift (they place it under the outsole), which is the base for the heel - G&G cut out, trim and skive the split lift themselves.
• Now we've reached the finishing, here there's too much differences to go through them all, but just to summarise: StC do many steps with grinding machines and polishing machines at first, before finishing by hand, and much fewer steps - G&G do everything by hand, also the base work, and do much more glassing also of edges, they seat the edges with edge irons to make them more compressed and smooth and evenly shaped, also press in wax with edge irons, they fudge wheel with wax, etc.

I think, apart from looking through the above, if one read this article here covering the making of a G&G bespoke pair, and watch this film here covering the making of an StC shoe (say that if a film of the same manner would follow the G&G bespoke/Optimum making it would be at maybe twice as long), one will get a further idea of the differences. And, for that matter, also the many similarities. Cause, yes, StC do make great shoes, and they certainly do a lot of things more properly than many other premium shoe brands. But that still doesn't mean one really can compare it to top level bespoke work like G&G's. And it's this work they now offer with Optimum, on standard lasts (with small modifications if needed).

 

[usctrojans31]

Friendly reminder that this is a group of hobbyists. Plenty of people can't be bothered with bespoke and want to flash the cash. This offering strikes me as conspicuous consumption and luxury for people who want easy.

 

[clee1982]

I'm not sure I would go that far, some just can't be deal with the "hassle" of bespoke. I mean there are guys on AM thread who got bespoke then AM told him existing last fits him well, might as well save some money go for Aurum.

I can see this as a "convenient" option, just priced way further than I ever want to try for sure (would just pay a bit higher and go with Nicholas Templeman who travel to NYC)

 

[othertravel]

It’s a lot of money, but you can’t deny they are beautiful shoes.

Lobb did something similar with their ‘Madison’ model, which is a RTW shoe made to bespoke standards. Also, $5K.

https://www.johnlobb.com/en_us/madison-20-anniversary

 

[clee1982]

yup, which again I don't "quite get it" either... definitely a lot more than I want to spend for a bespoke standard RTW

 

[daizawaguy]

G&G use a synthetic sheet between the outer and lining (to stop squeaking I heard) - I wonder if they use this sheet in the new Optimum? That would be the acid test!

 

[JohnMRobie]

It’s a lot of money, but you can’t deny they are beautiful shoes.

Lobb did something similar with their ‘Madison’ model, which is a RTW shoe made to bespoke standards. Also, $5K.

https://www.johnlobb.com/en_us/madison-20-anniversary

yup, which again I don't "quite get it" either... definitely a lot more than I want to spend for a bespoke standard RTW

Theirs was a “limited edition” or something though wasn’t it? I always assume calling something arbitrarily adds to the cost. Although interestingly if they only made a few pairs in each size for 20 total and released like 9 months ago and there are still some available direct it would seem to be an indication that there’s potentially not a ton of interest once you get to that price point. It’ll be interesting to see how many people actually are interested.

 

[clee1982]

JLP bespoke is like 7k+?, so I mean even if it wasn't "limited edition" given GG pricing delta, this might just be "in line"...

 

[CLTesquire]

There's quite a lot, but I can go through some just to give you an idea (with reservations of that I can have got some details wrong. And note, I only go through things with larger differences here, there's much more to the making a shoe by hand than this):

• StC has prepped insoles which has edges trimmed off and holdfast carved out - G&G cuts out the pieces needed from full thickness shoulder leather, extensive trimming is done, then holdfast is carved out.
• StC has prepped backings and finished heel and toe stiffeners - G&G cut out own backings from thin leather which is skived and trimmed, and cut stiffeners from the full thickness shoulder leather as used for the insole, which is heavily skived, trimmed and sanded to suit the specific shoe.
• StC has finished welts with pre-carved seam channel - G&G takes full thickness leather, cut rough and split it to correct thickness, then cut out the correct size and carve out the seam channel.
• StC takes a finished thread treat it with pitch and stitch the welt seam 270° and peg the heel part - G&G takes around eight thinner threads and twist them together themselves together with pitch and stitch the welt seam 270° plus stitch the heel part.
• StC builds up shank cover and bevelling base with prepped parts - G&G cuts out parts from full thickness leather and shape the shank cover and bevelling base.
• StC has a pre-cut outsole which they prep with a grinding machine - G&G cuts out the outsole from full thickness leather and prep it by skiving and sanding it by hand.
• StC peg the waist - G&G stitch the waist by hand and hide the stitching with the edge of the sole, a so called blind welt
• StC do the sole stitch from the waist forward with machine and though decorative stitch pricking afterwards (not matching the seams, only for look) - G&G fudge the welt, do the sole stitch by hand, stitch prick each stitch so it's compressed and further strengthened, then fudge wheel again.
• StC has a pre-made split lift (they place it under the outsole), which is the base for the heel - G&G cut out, trim and skive the split lift themselves.
• Now we've reached the finishing, here there's too much differences to go through them all, but just to summarise: StC do many steps with grinding machines and polishing machines at first, before finishing by hand, and much fewer steps - G&G do everything by hand, also the base work, and do much more glassing also of edges, they seat the edges with edge irons to make them more compressed and smooth and evenly shaped, also press in wax with edge irons, they fudge wheel with wax, etc.

I think, apart from looking through the above, if one read this article here covering the making of a G&G bespoke pair, and watch this film here covering the making of an StC shoe (say that if a film of the same manner would follow the G&G bespoke/Optimum making it would be at maybe twice as long), one will get a further idea of the differences. And, for that matter, also the many similarities. Cause, yes, StC do make great shoes, and they certainly do a lot of things more properly than many other premium shoe brands. But that still doesn't mean one really can compare it to top level bespoke work like G&G's. And it's this work they now offer with Optimum, on standard lasts (with small modifications if needed).

Thank you for that response. Very informative. I appreciate it.

 

[CLTesquire]

FWIW G&G messaged me on IG to say they’d be willing to waive the shipping charge if I ordered a pair.

 

[dench127]

FWIW G&G messaged me on IG to say they’d be willing to waive the shipping charge if I ordered a pair.

How magnanimous of them

 

[Texasmade]

JLP bespoke is like 7k+?, so I mean even if it wasn't "limited edition" given GG pricing delta, this might just be "in line"...

$7k....I wish. That was the price for new customers like 4 years ago.

 

[clee1982]

Well then the delta to 5k makes even more sense...