F1 2007 Season

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by AAA

Has anyone been to any of the GPs outside of North America? I am really tempted to go this year, and I am trying to figure out which one makes the most sense. Sao Paulo sounds like a great time, but if the championship is already decided it could make it a less than dramtic event. Someone also told me that Bahrain is a real sleeper, and totally worth attending.

The Bahrain track is really interesting, as far as modern tracks are concerned. Monaco is the most glamorous (naturally). If the German GP was still on the original Nordschleife (sp?) I would unequivocally say go there.
On the other hand, Spa is a track that has not lost all its charms from what I understand, and it is in Belgium, - lots of good food and beer!

 

[Joffrey]

Originally Posted by AAA

Has anyone been to any of the GPs outside of North America? I am really tempted to go this year, and I am trying to figure out which one makes the most sense. Sao Paulo sounds like a great time, but if the championship is already decided it could make it a less than dramtic event. Someone also told me that Bahrain is a real sleeper, and totally worth attending.


Personally, I base the GP I would like to visit on how much I would like to visit the country it's held in. After the Canadian GP, I'd probably like to check out Sao Paulo and then Melbourne. I wouldnt pay for Monaco unless I was doing the whole glamour thing (sick hotel, yacht to watch the race on, large eating/drinking bills and beautiful women on my arms and legs)

 

[Patrick Bateman]

What are the safety issues when travelling to Sao Paulo? Is race weekend safer than usual or do all the crooks descend on the city looking for easy targets (influx of foreigners)? I recall some F1 team members have been been robbed there recently.

 

[AAA]

Apparently the crime can be pretty bad, even for the teams....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/1251755.stm

http://www.inforally.sibiul.ro/formu...a_hold_up.html

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Thanks for the articles AAA, those were the incidents I was thinking of. Hiring bodyguards and an armored vehicle may be an option.

 

[Joffrey]

N Armored BEntley should be some fun.

Here's the Schumacher retirement story: http://www.luke-hamilton.com/temp/MSCretirementBF1.pdf

Edit: I guess they took it down. It was from a magazine called Business F1 which is supposed to be pretty good.

 

[jeansandtshirt]

I think the title will be up to Kimi or Button. I really do think if Honda gets on a roll Button could become the driver ppl. thought he was 5 years ago. Alonso imho doesn't have a chance...he will be lucky to finish above Fisichella in the points.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by jeansandtshirt

I think the title will be up to Kimi or Button. I really do think if Honda gets on a roll Button could become the driver ppl. thought he was 5 years ago. Alonso imho doesn't have a chance...he will be lucky to finish above Fisichella in the points.
People have been saying that Honda is going to have a major breakthrough for some time now...they've only had consistent podiums in one year, 2004, and even then they weren't contending for wins. It's really hard to make that leap the way Renault passed Ferrari, Ferrari passed Williams and McLaren, and so on.

Not only does Alonso not have a chance, I think he will be lucky to be within 15-20 points of Fisi...and that's taking into account that Fisi will give away a ton of points next year, as he does every year.

Button to me is not made of championship stuff. You can chalk it up to bad luck and not having a good enough car, but bottom line, it took him 113 races to win a GP. A key sign of a future champion in modern F1 is winning a race early in his career, usually in an inferior car. To win a GP without driving the fastest or 2nd-fastest car is sufficiently difficult that this is a good test of driver skill.

Examples:

Alonso won his first GP in his 12th race for Renault, in his second race season. (He drove for Minardi in 2001, tested for Renault in 2002, and was promoted to the second seat for Renault in 2003.)

Schumacher won at Spa and finished 3rd in the championship in his first full season with Bennetton, in 1992. (A year earlier, in his race debut he qualified 7th, and then scored points-under the old system-in his next three races.)

Senna, after scoring 3 podiums in his first season, with Toleman, switched to Lotus and won at Estoril in the second race of his second season. He later won at Spa in the same year. (Note that both Schumacher and Senna got early wins at Spa - a true driver's circuit.)

Prost, in his second F1 season, won his home GP and then added wins at Zandvoort and Monza.

The only champions in the last 20+ years who don't fit this profile are Mansell (1 championship, first victory came in his 5th full season) and Hakkinen (2 championships, first victory came in his 6th full season).

Even though it would reinforce my point, I discount Villeneuve and Damon Hill. Although both started winning very early in their careers, they were driving a very competitive car. (In Villeneuve's case, he enjoyed a car that was the class of the F1 grid for his first two seasons.)

 

[Joffrey]

It took a while for Hakkinen to win his first too. I thin it was over 100 races. Anyway, give Jenson a good car and he can do it. BUt I'm not worried about him. I somehow expect Fernando to do quite well with the McLaren. I think it'll be down to him, Kimi and Massa

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by Jodum5

It took a while for Hakkinen to win his first too. I thin it was over 100 races.
I mentioned that in my post above. Again, he and Mansell are the exceptions to the general rule. In the last 20 years, only 3 championships have been won by drivers who took more than 2 full racing seasons to win their first GP.

Fwiw Kimi should have won at Magny-Cours in his second season (and his first with McLaren after spending his rookie year at Sauber). He lost the lead when he skidded over some oil from McNish's Toyota, and had to settle for second. His first win came in Malaysia, in 2003, in his 36th start.

 

[Dragon]

One thing we know is that Alonso, Kimi, and Button consistently beat their team mates no matter what car they are driving. We all know they are very good drivers, so the big question will be who will be driving the best car in 2007.

Usually, we will have to wait until the first race before we can really see the true potential of the teams.

 

[jeansandtshirt]

Originally Posted by Dragon

Usually, we will have to wait until the first race before we can really see the true potential of the teams.

Darn good point. Does everyone remember back to the first race of '98? Sure, we knew Mclaren would be strong based on how they got better towards the end of '97, but they set a blistering pace in Australia. MS basically wore out the Ferrari trying to keep up...everyone else was in "Formula 1.5".

With the lack of reliability at Mclaren of recent years, the departure of Alonso from Renault, the shake up at Ferrari, something strange could happen this year. Regardless, it sure will be different without Schumacher, the good one, on the grid.

 

[jeansandtshirt]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

People have been saying that Honda is going to have a major breakthrough for some time now...

I think that is because a lot of us that say that can't get the fact out of our heads that Honda used to own F1 lol. Old habits die hard, I still think of Mansell and Piquet when I think of Honda in F1.

Anyways, you make some good points. I just have this feeling that we have not seen the best of what Button has to offer. The car really has been the limiting factor imho. Sure, like you said, champions in the past have won races in inferior cars. But eras are different. Button was driving a lesser car in a period of extreme reliability in the Ferrari. Schumi's blow up in Suzuki was the first Ferrari engine blow up since when? That never used to happen in F1...look back to Ferrari in '96. Button's chances at wins were a lot less than other champions had in the past.

Renault had a great package the last few years, now their Michelins are gone and we will have to see who makes the best switch to the spec tire. It is just a hunch of mine that Honda with Button has as good as a chance as anyone to figure out the new package since they are the only top teaming coming in with the same ppl.

We totally agree about Hill and Villenueve btw. I remember "debating" Hill fans back in the mid 90's that were totally convinced Schumi had a better car and Hill was the better driver. Besides Hill's great drive at Hungary in '97 and Ralph not attempting to pass his teammate Hill at Spa, neither one of them did anything after Williams. Well, I take that back, JV did take flight at Melbourne. Interestingly enough he didn't rate that crash like he did with his previous wrecks...maybe it had something to do with his tire flying thru the whole in the fence.

LOL...it's late and I'm rambling.

 

[Southern-Nupe]

Originally Posted by jeansandtshirt

Darn good point. Does everyone remember back to the first race of '98? Sure, we knew Mclaren would be strong based on how they got better towards the end of '97, but they set a blistering pace in Australia. MS basically wore out the Ferrari trying to keep up...everyone else was in "Formula 1.5".

With the lack of reliability at Mclaren of recent years, the departure of Alonso from Renault, the shake up at Ferrari, something strange could happen this year. Regardless, it sure will be different without Schumacher, the good one, on the grid.
This is turning into a pretty interesting season with the likes of Lewis Hamilton and Alonso. Both are leading in the standings. Hamilton is having an amazing season for a rookie, it'll be interesting to see how he follows up and performs at Indianapolis this weekend.

 

[Brian278]

Originally Posted by Southern-Nupe

This is turning into a pretty interesting season with the likes of Lewis Hamilton and Alonso. Both are leading in the standings. Hamilton is having an amazing season for a rookie, it'll be interesting to see how he follows up and performs at Indianapolis this weekend.
Hamilton has somewhat revived my interest in F1 after not watching every race for the first time in a few years. What's he's doing is pretty remarkable for a rookie, fastest car or no fastest car. He's the kind of guy that can become a transcendent international star in his sport, with the two best drivers being either whiny (Alonso) or staggeringly dull (Raikkonen). I was a Kimi fan because of his talent and his team. In fact, if I had any criticism about Hamilton it's that he's actually too modest, an odd trait for a race car driver at the pinnacle of his sport. Funny how so many people wrote off McLaren at the beginning of the year in this thread, and now they're the clear favorite to win both titles.