Expensive Suits - Can anyone tell

[dieworkwear]



You know what amazes me? That if some colleague of mine walked up to me and opened my jacket so he could read the label, and in response to his rudeness I discreetly struck him in the face with the palm heel of my hand and broke his nose, there are actually some people who'd call me the bad guy!

Some people just don't understand the concept of a teachable moment.

How do you discreetly strike someone in the face and break their nose?

 

[12345Michael54321]



Unfortunately, your employer will see YOU as the bad guy and fire you, not to mention what the local prosecutor would do.

Then there would be the civil suit.

But my comment was, of course, tongue-in-cheek.

The real bad guy knows that and that's why he does things that that he would have never attempted even 500 years ago.

A study of history shows that 500 years ago, there was plenty of bad behavior to go around. It tended to be somewhat different from today's bad behavior, and the social constraints on behavior were somewhat different from those which exist today, but it's not like people in early 16th century Europe (alas, I'm far more familiar with European history, particularly the social and legal history of western Europe, than I am with what the 16th century was like in most other parts of the world) were notably better behaved than are people in the early 21st century United States. Rather the contrary, in a great many ways.

I wonder... if that fellow came up to me and opened my jacket so he could read the label, and I subtly broke his nose for his rudeness, could I then claim that I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body, and as such what the guy did was male-on-female violence in the workplace? And my response amounted to my defending myself from what might reasonably have been seen as a possible sexual assault? And for permitting such a workplace environment, my employer should give me a few hundred thousand dollars? How much do you think Lifetime would pay me for the movie rights? Would I be offered a primetime spot at the 2020 Democratic National Convention? You think Yale would invite me to speak at Commencement?

 

[12345Michael54321]



How do you discreetly strike someone in the face and break their nose?

You don't shout a kiai.

It's like casting a non-verbal bone breaker curse, in the Harry Potter universe.

 

[Jim Chu]

Didn't you see Eddie Murphy in Trading Places (the jail scene)?

You use the "Quart-of Blood Technique" on his nose. You just make some noises (heee, Ya!, whooo-oooh!" and make some Karate/Kung-Fu moves and a quart of blood will just drop out a person's body.

 

[Jim Chu]

Quart-of-Blood Technique:

 

[Jim Chu]

Ok, 5,000 years ago? Let's make it a safe 10,000?

 

[dieworkwear]

.

 

[Jim Chu]

I wonder... if that fellow came up to me and opened my jacket so he could read the label, and I subtly broke his nose for his rudeness, could I then claim that I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body, and as such what the guy did was male-on-female violence in the workplace? And my response amounted to my defending myself from what might reasonably have been seen as a possible sexual assault? And for permitting such a workplace environment, my employer should give me a few hundred thousand dollars? How much do you think Lifetime would pay me for the movie rights? Would I be offered a primetime spot at the 2020 Democratic National Convention? You think Yale would invite me to speak at Commencement?

Work-place violence tends to be strict liability in nature. If you strike someone at work, on premises, even in self-defense, you're gone. Your gender, sexual orientation, race will not matter.
The liability for the employer that would come with you striking someone again in the future is too great for any employer to bear. When two people get caught fighting at work, in-house counsel and HR probably won't really care how the fight started.

And this being a termination "for cause" don't expect to collect unemployment.

 

[Jim Chu]

Then there would be the civil suit.

But my comment was, of course, tongue-in-cheek.
A study of history shows that 500 years ago, there was plenty of bad behavior to go around. It tended to be somewhat different from today's bad behavior, and the social constraints on behavior were somewhat different from those which exist today, but it's not like people in early 16th century Europe (alas, I'm far more familiar with European history, particularly the social and legal history of western Europe, than I am with what the 16th century was like in most other parts of the world) were notably better behaved than are people in the early 21st century United States. Rather the contrary, in a great many ways.

My point had less to do with a comparative analyses of historical human behavior and more to do with how scores were settled. Even a few hundred years ago if someone walked up to you and opened your jacket without permission, which is a form of assault, he could have possibly sealed his fate with a duel and bullet to the chest. I am saying without the protections provided by modern civilization, people, in many cases, had to back-up their bad behavior on their on. A self-policing social system like this tended to keep punks at bay.

 

[gs77]

Most of the world still functions like this. Actually, protection on the workplace that you describe only exists in small part of world and only in certain corporate settings. Last time I read news, getting a bullet didn't seem too hard.

 

[Jim Chu]

Most of the world still functions like this. Actually, protection on the workplace that you describe only exists in small part of world and only in certain corporate settings. Last time I read news, getting a bullet didn't seem too hard.

I am not sure I agree. But nevertheless.... I don't think the isolated Peruvian tribe in the Amazon rain forest is concerned with tribal members walking up to other members and opening their sport coat jackets without permission (it probably wouldn't be a concern in any event because in that case, that guy's head - the rude guy's head - might end up as a shrunken ornament hanging around the other guy's neck).

In pretty much every other place, I think there are laws and rules and other social institutions and constructs, spoken and unspoken and written and unwritten that legally prevent most kinds of retaliation.

 

[gs77]



I am not sure I agree.   But nevertheless.... I don't think the isolated Peruvian tribe in the Amazon rain forest is concerned with tribal members walking up to other members and opening their sport coat jackets without permission.  

Quite shallow comment, I must say. Without the need for so much travel, I suggest you walk into any bar after say 10 pm, in any shady neighbourhood of any western town and open someone's jacket (who said it has to be suit jacket or sport coat?) without asking... See what happens...

 

[Jim Chu]

Quite shallow comment, I must say. Without the need for so much travel, I suggest you walk into any bar after say 10 pm, in any shady neighbourhood of any western town and open someone's jacket (who said it has to be suit jacket or sport coat?) without asking... See what happens...

I think you've lost track of the discussion. The question isn't what would or could happen in response, it's what could LEGALLY happen in response.
You can also break that guy's nose at work even the most corporate of workplaces.....but that's not the issue.

 

[Caustic Man]

Women, yes. Men, no.

My wife, who is very learned in the ways of women's fashion, knows nothing at all about suits. I'm guessing most women are the same.

 

[12345Michael54321]



My wife, who is very learned in the ways of women's fashion, knows nothing at all about suits. I'm guessing most women are the same.

And this is likely made increasingly common due to the decline in the wearing of suits over the past few decades.

When many men (basically all men in "white collar" jobs, and plenty of men in non-white collar jobs) regularly wore suits, many women were good at judging a man's place in society by his suit. When most men don't routinely wear suits, that skill isn't really worth cultivating for many women.

These days, just wearing a suit - any suit - is often enough to impress.