Edward green question

[jcusey]

My new pair of EG Olneys on the 606 last in dark oak antique finally arrived on Friday, and as I was examining them, I noticed something that I haven't seen before: they have double soles, but the midsole begins to taper just aft of the ball of the foot and disappears completely near the waist of the shoe. Here's a picture of the taper:

Aside from making the shoe slimmer at the waist, does anyone have any idea why this would be done? Doe it have a name? I'll crosspost this over on the Ask Andy forum when it's available again in the hopes that Tony Gaziano happens by. Seriously, Andy, you need to dump those losers at XO Communications.

 

[offshore observer]

Isn't this a bevelled waist similar to Lobb's "bootmaker sole"?

 

[bengal-stripe]

Edward Green's military boots "Herrick" (which our friend A Harris could not get into and subsequently sold) have the same feature. http://cobblers.hp.infoseek.co.jp/monthly01-10.htm##07 (Go down to the fifth picture) I have seen it done before (can't remember where); it is probably as old a technique than a middle sole covering the entire length. I'm sure there is a name for it (everything got a name), but I wouldn't know it. How are the soles finished: half black or all tan leather? A Harris' RL boots had a half black sole, which EG usually employs for single soled shoes. I believe you bought the shoes (at Saks or wherever), they were not specially ordered for you. It might well be the case, that the Saks buyer specified them this way. All the shoes EG made for Paul Stuart had "scalloping" (decorative pattern) round the sole plus the inner corner knocked off each heel (very American) which EG normally does not do, but Paul Stuart must have specified them this way. Same thing with RLPL shoes, they don't come with a bevelled but a straight cut waist (at least in recent years), again, I presume, according to specification. You might have to wait a while for Tony to pass by at Andy's, as AA appears to be down right now, "this account has surpassed its bandwidth allocation at the present time".

 

[jcusey]

Isn't this a bevelled waist similar to Lobb's "bootmaker sole"?

No, not really. JL Paris's "bootmaker" waist has an exaggerated curve on the sole of the shoe, has rouded edges on the side of the sole, and is cut extremely close to the upper. It additionally is skyved down some so that it's a bit thinner than the rest of the sole. This boot has straight-cut sides, a less-pronounced curve, and they're not cut exceptionally close to the uppers.

 

[jcusey]

Edward Green's military boots "Herrick" (which our friend A Harris could not get into and subsequently sold) have the same feature. http://cobblers.hp.infoseek.co.jp/monthly01-10.htm##07 (Go down to the fifth picture)

The more I look at those boots, the more I like them.

How are the soles finished: half black or all tan leather? A Harris' RL boots had a half black sole, which EG usually employs for single soled shoes.

They're all tan, although that may be a result of Saks's specification.

I believe you bought the shoes (at Saks or wherever), they were not specially ordered for you. It might well be the case, that the Saks buyer specified them this way.

That very well could be. The picture of the Olney in the catalogues that I've seen don't appear to have this feature.

You might have to wait a while for Tony to pass by at Andy's, as AA appears to be down right now, "this account has surpassed its bandwidth allocation at the present time".

Well, it's back up now, although who knows for how long? If the pattern holds, it'll go back down in an hour or two and stay down for at least a day.

 

[jrh]

I have a pair of Herrick boots with a medallion cap toe in chestnut antique.  The double leather sole is not as Jcusey has recently received, but what we are commonly to seeing.

About fifteen years ago I owned a Dover with a similar double sole to that presented here by Jcusey.  I wore them in a heavy NYC rain and the layers of sole leather slightly seperated, but never came apart.  The sole wore well.  My foot size changed and the shoes were discarded a couple of years ago.

The Herricks are nice boots but not a heavy shoe.  More like a dress shoe with a high top.  EG did not want to make them up for some complexity reason.  Beats me.

Jcusey, query EG about the sole, and please share the response.

JRH

 

[A Harris]

I rather like that sole for boots. Alfred Sargent does something similar:

 

[bengal-stripe]

The more I look at those boots, the more I like them.

So do I. "Herrick" and "Olney" are top of the list for my forthcoming fall boots.

EG did not want to make them up for some complexity reason.  Beats me.

I haven't approached EG as yet, so I wonder whether there will be some difficulties to get the order placed. We'll see, if I decide to go for these boots.

I've never seen them for real, so my question to jrh and A Harris as owners and former owners of these boots: Does the tongue come up all the way to the edge, or is the tongue restricted to the lower part (the lacing section) only?

 

[kabert]

Jcusey and all,

I've got a pair of EG/RLPL monkstrap shoes with an identical tapered double sole. I don't know the shoes' origin or whether they were specifically ordered new with those soles, as I purchased them used on EBay.

 

[jrh]

Bengal-stripe:

The tongue comes up to the top of the Herrick boot.  For some reason, on the left boot the tongue settles in crookward.

The leather, is an Italian full grain on my boot.  It does not appear to be the same leather on my other EG shoes and boots, a bit lighter weight.  EG has told me it is full grain.  Are EGs shoes and other boots made from an English or Scottish leather?

I had to correspond with Hillary Freeman to have the Herricks made.  The London store told me the factory said they were not making them any longer.  Ms Freeman told me they were complicated to make and too costly for them to profit.  Last year I paid about $700 with shipping.

My Herricks are not a field weight, but a very nice town or light country boot.

 

[jcusey]

Here's the reply that I got from Edward Green:

We call this a double leather sole with half middles. This really gives you a bit more wear at the soles without making the shoes too heavy, and also it keeps the sole flexible at the waist area.

I like the name, although I don't buy the part about making the waist area more flexible. I though the whole point of a shank was to ensure that the waist was extremely inflexible.

 

[bengal-stripe]

We call this a double leather sole with half middles. This really gives you a bit more wear at the soles without making the shoes too heavy, and also it keeps the sole flexible at the waist area.

Now we know, how it's called. Everybody ordering a pair of double soled EG shoes, will now know, what to specify if we like that style of sole, or what to rule out, if we don't. I too, do not belief that spiel about the flexible waist. Maybe that method was invented to save leather, although that should not be a criterion at today's prices. Be it as it may.

I had to correspond with Hillary Freeman to have the Herricks made. Â The London store told me the factory said they were not making them any longer. Â Ms Freeman told me they were complicated to make and too costly for them to profit.

I'm really puzzled about the difficulties with the "Herrick" style. EG makes two different Derby-boot styles for Asprey, one of them even has a combination of laces and a (single) strap. I haven't decided yet what style to get, but if I want to go for "Herrick", maybe I'll have to appeal to Ms Freeman, (they really ought to make some exceptions to us cheerleaders of the EG Appreciation Society).

 

[TimelessRider]

I was told by Tony Gaziano and John Garner of EG that it is not possible/not recommended to make a bevelled or fiddle-back waist with double leather soles. Maybe the double leather sole with half middles allows for this feature...?

 

[jrh]

Eg has always been a bunch of stand-up folk to me.  Although I favor questioning authority (being a child of the sixties), Eg has earned the respect of benifit of the doubt.  I am not suggesting doubt, but some uncertaining seems to be brewing.

I invite Eg to chime in and splain.  After all an educated customer, [ought be their] best customer.

By the by, Iwas wearing my Newmarket EGs with captoe and Ridgeway soles in burned pines calf today...gush they are nice.

 

[jcusey]

Eg has always been a bunch of stand-up folk to me. Although I favor questioning authority (being a child of the sixties), Eg has earned the respect of benifit of the doubt. I am not suggesting doubt, but some uncertaining seems to be brewing.

They certainly are stand-up folks, and if I don't buy part of the explanation, it's certainly not because I think that they're being dishonest or because I don't think that they forget more about about shoes before lunch than I ever knew. It's because that part of their explanation doesn't square with what I've read about shoe construction and what I've observed about how shoes flex when the wearer is walking.

I invite Eg to chime in and splain. After all an educated customer, [ought be their] best customer.

Well, Tony Gaziano stops by the Ask Andy forum from time to time, and I would certainly welcome his comments.

By the by, Iwas wearing my Newmarket EGs with captoe and Ridgeway soles in burned pines calf today...gush they are nice.

Cap toe on the Newmarket? Interesting. Plain cap or with a medallion?