EDWARD GREEN Vs. Gaziano & Girling Leathers

[Alan Bee]

Gents,

Far from my intention to ignite a flame war as I know shoes are a form of religion on this forum. I joined this forum in 2006/7 and since then have have worn almost exclusively Edward Green Shoes. I did begin with Crockett & Jones (Hand Grade) but hardly took another look at them following my first experience with Edward Green at Saks 5th. I have also tried a couple of John Lobb (Classics not Prestige) during this period and always return to my Greens.

Heres the current dilemma, a fortunate one if it ever existed. I now wear orthotics and had to chuck all my shoes (15 EG's and 2 Lobbs) acquired since 2007. I am gradually rebuilding and choosing more carefully, avoiding the allure of "sales" and paying full fare for exactly what fits the more limited wardrobe. As opposed to say, grabbing stuff just on sale, yielding the sentimental "fear of missing out".

Once more, I have designed the new shoe wardrobe around EG. But I am attracted to some of the styling on Gaziano & Girling. Specifically, I was looking to fill in a hole for a dress full-brogue in dark oak. In EG it was down to the Malvern or Inverness. Both fine choices but then the G&G Rothschild in the DG70 last caught my eye and oh, what a beautiful brogue. Will Boehlke (A Suitable Wardrobe) called it the most beautiful RTW Brogue he's ever set eyes upon. A number of others agree.

So I decided to have a go and ordered one (Made-to-Order) from Jermyn Street. A very basic traditional Vintage Oak Calf on the DG70 "Smart Round" last, no bells no whistles. I was advised to stick to my EG (82 last) sizing 11.5/12D or 11.5UK(D) for the DG70 last.

AGING

I have to say though that looking through hundreds of pictures on the web (I have never seen a pair live), I arrive at the conclusion that the G&G shoes don't "age" as well as EG. They look simply delicious when new, but the pictures I see of the used shoes on the G&G thread here and elsewhere leave me a bit cold. The leathers look very wrinkly, creased and even dry when they've been worn (even as few as 3 times). I am not sure if its a case of G&G folks not maintaining their shoes but I highly doubt this.

My old EG's on the other hand, I have a couple pair that I managed to hold onto (right size) which are over 10 years old. If you didn't take a look at the soles (undersides), you would vow they were completely brand new shoes, only more beautiful because of the softened leather and patina. Even in pictures on the EG thread, I see this with other older EG shoes.

So yes, I've already taken the plunge into the G&G forest (if only for variety) but I wonder if there are any who own both who could comment on the aging (which is not to say, durability) of either shoe. Also feel free to comment on styling and overall quality based on your experience.

Thank you

Alan Bee

 

[bry2000]

The GG “D” fitting is very narrow. Are you sure it will fit? I take a “D” in EG, but an “E” in GG. Same numerical size.

 

[Alan Bee]

The GG “D” fitting is very narrow. Are you sure it will fit? I take a “D” in EG, but an “E” in GG. Same numerical size.

@bry2000

Not to derail the thread (to my shoe size) but thats not my understanding from G&G sir. I am told G&G "D" width is same as EG "D" width and same applies for all the widths (all UK width). The standard width for both EG and GG are "E" width which both translate to a US "D" width. I take a UK "D" width which would translate to a US "C" width. I have feet that are quite flat with very low instep, narrow heels, and overall shallow volume (girth) but long.

Any views on the original subject?

Alan Bee

 

[bry2000]

I wear both and have not noticed a difference in the aging of the leathers. They both use excellent leathers IMO and I have been equally satisfied.

 

[Alan Bee]

I wear both and have not noticed a difference in the aging of the leathers. They both use excellent leathers IMO and I have been equally satisfied.

@bry2000 Thank you sir. Can you share any pics of both shoes (EG & GG) aged and worn in?

Alan Bee

 

[RogerP]

The GG “D” fitting is very narrow. Are you sure it will fit? I take a “D” in EG, but an “E” in GG. Same numerical size.

I likewise take E in EG but F in G&G. No difference in aging of the leathers that I can perceive.

 

[Stefan88]

G&G fits a little tighter for me. If both were E, the G&G feels half a width slimmer.

 

[shoesforever]

When I bought my EG derbies and was fitted in store by @Stefan88 , I was also told that E in EG is comparable to F in G&G. They also had a pair of F lasted G&G derbies in store that I got to try on to confirm this. The shoe snob also confirmed this compared to his own line of shoes and he used to train over at the G&G factory. The width of one company is not always the same for another even if they both have E as the standard width.G&G sleekness has a lot to do with their lasts being very narrow. Of course different feet will fit differently in different lasts. The fit of the given lasts will also affect how they crease and so will the type of shoe. For example a whole cut vs a pair of wing tips(whole cuts crease more). I seem to remember DW Frommer mentioning that lower toe springs can cause the leather to crease more due to a greater flex while walking and I think G&G has a slightly lower toe spring. Both EG and G&G use uncolored crust leather and dye them with aniline themselves in order to create the colorway they want to have. Being bespoke makers and former employees of EG, I would think Tony and Dean have intimate knowledge on sourcing the right type of leather and the construction of EG vs G&G. Sometimes leather can behave differently depending on the batch. Even when coming from the same tannery and being the same kind of leather. Therefore I would not think there to be much of a difference in leather quality between the two companies.

This article from The shoe snob is a good one on leather creasing.

http://www.theshoesnobblog.com/2017...eather-creasing-means-something-is-wrong.html

 

[Alan Bee]

When I bought my EG derbies and was fitted in store by @Stefan88 , I was also told that E in EG is comparable to F in G&G. They also had a pair of F lasted G&G derbies in store that I got to try on to confirm this. The shoe snob also confirmed this compared to his own line of shoes and he used to train over at the G&G factory. The width of one company is not always the same for another even if they both have E as the standard width.G&G sleekness has a lot to do with their lasts being very narrow. Of course different feet will fit differently in different lasts. The fit of the given lasts will also affect how they crease and so will the type of shoe. For example a whole cut vs a pair of wing tips(whole cuts crease more). I seem to remember DW Frommer mentioning that lower toe springs can cause the leather to crease more due to a greater flex while walking and I think G&G has a slightly lower toe spring. Both EG and G&G use uncolored crust leather and dye them with aniline themselves in order to create the colorway they want to have. Being bespoke makers and former employees of EG, I would think Tony and Dean have intimate knowledge on sourcing the right type of leather and the construction of EG vs G&G. Sometimes leather can behave differently depending on the batch. Even when coming from the same tannery and being the same kind of leather. Therefore I would not think there to be much of a difference in leather quality between the two companies.

This article from The shoe snob is a good one on leather creasing.

http://www.theshoesnobblog.com/2017...eather-creasing-means-something-is-wrong.html

@shoesforever

Thank you for your detailed response. I was specifically told that the DG70 fits exactly as the corresponding size in an EG 82 last. I wonder if the DG70 and GG06 which are more traditional lasts run a bit wider than the "modern" lasts such as MH71 and TG73.

My feet wobble in an EG 82 E last of the right length. I just received a pair each of EG 82D and 202D and they are perfect out of the box with the 82 a bit snugger but not uncomfortable. To make it even more complex, I also have an old pair of 10yr old of EG Chelseas (same length) in a C202 last and they are super comfortable and look almost new after 10 years save the sole.

Overall, Its an educated gamble .....

Alan Bee

 

[daizawaguy]

You won't find too many people here critique GG leathers, but don't you notice that almost all shoes you see (as you say aside from new) where the creased parts look dry and have lost their factory finish? Take a peek at p1647 on their thread - its a great pic to show how GG ages - sure, some people think its great, but you get an idea of the difference between a factory finish and a worn shoe, and that dryness and inability to take the polishes around the creases. Haven't seen such a difference on EG, and seen quite a few pics where they are clearly more beautiful with age. Some say its the crust leather GG uses, but its a very frustrating feeling polishing your shoes only to lose most of the look as you bend your foot. What I have found though what helps is to drench them in a cream (Saphir or other) many times (like 20-30), but here again the creases are problematic. I know people here don't like me saying this, but thats my honest view, and for a shoe in this price range, I'm not hugely satisfied.

 

[RogerP]

Good heavens - 20 to 30 heavy coats of cream? Not a chance I'd do that to my shoes.

 

[Alan Bee]

You won't find too many people here critique GG leathers, but don't you notice that almost all shoes you see (as you say aside from new) where the creased parts look dry and have lost their factory finish? Take a peek at p1647 on their thread - its a great pic to show how GG ages - sure, some people think its great, but you get an idea of the difference between a factory finish and a worn shoe, and that dryness and inability to take the polishes around the creases. Haven't seen such a difference on EG, and seen quite a few pics where they are clearly more beautiful with age. Some say its the crust leather GG uses, but its a very frustrating feeling polishing your shoes only to lose most of the look as you bend your foot. What I have found though what helps is to drench them in a cream (Saphir or other) many times (like 20-30), but here again the creases are problematic. I know people here don't like me saying this, but thats my honest view, and for a shoe in this price range, I'm not hugely satisfied.

@daizawaguy Thank you sir!

Honestly, I thought I was being paranoid but you have just articulated more properly my own visual observations. I see far too many shoes on the GG thread that just aren't aging well. Lots of creased shoes which I initially put to the overly long lasts like DECO, MH71 and TG73 and the fact that most have to take extra long shoes to accommodate their toes.

But I am glad someone else has pointed this out. My MTO order is already in and I can't turn back. But for an a 13 year EG disciple, I eagerly look forward to receiving the shoes and comparing for myself over time. To avoid those nasty creases, I have gone with a D width (same as my EG sizing) to ensure minimum loose leather flopping around and making a mess.

BTW, How many EG's vs GG's do you own? Or better still, whats the ratio?

Alan Bee

 

[daizawaguy]

Well, not at the same time!....I meant after 20-30 polishes/creaming, but I can tell you I've polished are than once after being disappointed. I think thats why GG`s look dry - people give up after realizing their efforts are not rewarded.

 

[daizawaguy]

I own one EG (had 5-6 in past), and 5 GG I think. I love their shape and look, but as I say those creases leave me disappointed. I think a lot has to do with the finish at the factory fading off as you use them. But a lot of elbow grease will help. Drench them in creams rather than wax polishes, and expect to wait months before that initial look returns. EG I find doesnt fall off as quick, and gets revived after one polish. As I say, just my experience, and lots here who won't agree...but in general I leave them in the cupboard a lot as I know when I walk 100m they look like I've worn them all day and they need a polish again.

 

[Stefan88]

I disagree with dg70 being equal to EGs 82. I tried to order dg70, but it turned out way too tight for me. For others with a slimmer forefoot, this might be the other way around.
I personally found dg70 too sharp, but that's more of an esthetic issue.
I love the mh71 in both e and f width. The GG06 has to be one of the most perfect round toe lasts around.

I own several EGs on 202E and two pairs on 82E. My favourite is 202. At some point, I may try out the 11d as opposed to 10.5 e.

As others have said, I believe my EGs holds up really well. Of all the shoes I've had and seen, EG (and Alden) looks best in the long run. Recently purchased a JM weston, and this seems to be similar.
Alfred Sargent too holds up well with use, not quite as well as EG but close.