Do you still live with your parents?

[dtmt]

Your entire argument is based on the idea that your personal experiences with family are universal.

They are not.

While I have my own life on the opposite side of the country, my mother would be happy to have me live at her house for as long as I wanted, if I so chose. My family is not your family. In many cultures, it is common for several generations of extended family to live together. Moving away from home does not make you morally superior than a family that stays together longer.

 

[rdawson808]

Originally Posted by dtmt

Your entire argument is based on the idea that your personal experiences with family are universal.

They are not.

While I have my own life on the opposite side of the country, my mother would be happy to have me live at her house for as long as I wanted, if I so chose. My family is not your family. In many cultures, it is common for several generations of extended family to live together. Moving away from home does not make you morally superior than a family that stays together longer.



Blah blah blah, it makes me morally superior to be an adult and not try to convince my mother that she's being immoral by charging me rent when I'm a damned adult and can perfectly well live on my own and afford my own housing.

My parents would welcome me and my wife back to live in their house if we wanted to as well. But they would expect any rent we were able to pay and it would be thinkable to suggest that we not.

My entire argument is based on the idea that when an adult, act like an adult. Pay your way and don't ask you parents to support you. If you are from a culture where many generations live together, you must also comprehend that your income goes to supporting the family. That's called "paying rent."

bob

 

[dtmt]

Again, basically all you're saying is: this is how MY family is, so therefore that's the only acceptable way.

 

[rdawson808]

Originally Posted by dtmt

I really don't get the point of charging kids rent, unless the family is in serious debt or something.

Okay, let's note: I have quoted you (in part), above.

You say you do not understand why a parent would charge a (presumably adult and capable) child rent unless the family were in financial dire straits. You then go on (the part I did not quote) to justify this with an argument about taxes.

I'll ignore the specifics of your tax argument, because they're basically stupid. Your point is one of finances. What would you do if you do want to move home and your mother says that you should pay rent every month? Keep in mind that you are perfectly capable of paying this rent or paying rent to someone else.

It seems that you would argue that since your mother is not in need of the money that you, by right of being her son, should not pay rent. I disagree. And I think that makes you selfish. You should pay her rent because she has no duty to you to give you a roof to live under. If she chooses to do so, fine. Whatever, it's her business. But if she wants to charge you rent, there are two perfectly reasonable arguments for her to do so:

1. Sure, it is currently empty, but she could rent the room to a stranger and earn money, so why give it to you for free? Her opportunity cost alone (never mind your use of utilites etc.) compels her to charge you.

2. By charging you rent she is avoiding making a mistake that, I believe, many parents make: they bail their kids out of every trouble they get into, thereby ensuring that the child will never take responsibility of his or her own actions. By charging you rent she gives you the incentive to be your own man.


And, yes, this is the only way for things to be. If you mom doesn't want to charge you rent, then fine. That's her business. If she does, you have not a leg to stand on to say differently.

bob

 

[Aries]

Originally Posted by rdawson808

Okay, let's note: I have quoted you (in part), above.

You say you do not understand why a parent would charge a (presumably adult and capable) child rent unless the family were in financial dire straits. You then go on (the part I did not quote) to justify this with an argument about taxes.

I'll ignore the specifics of your tax argument, because they're basically stupid. Your point is one of finances. What would you do if you do want to move home and your mother says that you should pay rent every month? Keep in mind that you are perfectly capable of paying this rent or paying rent to someone else.

It seems that you would argue that since your mother is not in need of the money that you, by right of being her son, should not pay rent. I disagree. And I think that makes you selfish. You should pay her rent because she has no duty to you to give you a roof to live under. If she chooses to do so, fine. Whatever, it's her business. But if she wants to charge you rent, there are two perfectly reasonable arguments for her to do so:

1. Sure, it is currently empty, but she could rent the room to a stranger and earn money, so why give it to you for free? Her opportunity cost alone (never mind your use of utilites etc.) compels her to charge you.

2. By charging you rent she is avoiding making a mistake that, I believe, many parents make: they bail their kids out of every trouble they get into, thereby ensuring that the child will never take responsibility of his or her own actions. By charging you rent she gives you the incentive to be your own man.


And, yes, this is the only way for things to be. If you mom doesn't want to charge you rent, then fine. That's her business. If she does, you have not a leg to stand on to say differently.

bob

+1, gotta agree with Bob on this one. Even if a parent has no need or want to charge an adult child rent, it is the obligation of a capable child to make a contribution any way. Unless the child is handicapped in someway, I think it just makes sense to be a contributing member of the household. Even kids have chores assigned to them, in most middle class families anyway.

 

[dtmt]

Originally Posted by rdawson808

Okay, let's note: I have quoted you (in part), above.

You say you do not understand why a parent would charge a (presumably adult and capable) child rent unless the family were in financial dire straits. You then go on (the part I did not quote) to justify this with an argument about taxes.

I'll ignore the specifics of your tax argument, because they're basically stupid. Your point is one of finances. What would you do if you do want to move home and your mother says that you should pay rent every month? Keep in mind that you are perfectly capable of paying this rent or paying rent to someone else.

It seems that you would argue that since your mother is not in need of the money that you, by right of being her son, should not pay rent. I disagree. And I think that makes you selfish. You should pay her rent because she has no duty to you to give you a roof to live under. If she chooses to do so, fine. Whatever, it's her business. But if she wants to charge you rent, there are two perfectly reasonable arguments for her to do so:

1. Sure, it is currently empty, but she could rent the room to a stranger and earn money, so why give it to you for free? Her opportunity cost alone (never mind your use of utilites etc.) compels her to charge you.

2. By charging you rent she is avoiding making a mistake that, I believe, many parents make: they bail their kids out of every trouble they get into, thereby ensuring that the child will never take responsibility of his or her own actions. By charging you rent she gives you the incentive to be your own man.


And, yes, this is the only way for things to be. If you mom doesn't want to charge you rent, then fine. That's her business. If she does, you have not a leg to stand on to say differently.

bob

Again, your arguments are all based on flawed premesis:

1) All parents want kids to pay rent.
2) All parents would rent out the children's rooms once the kids move out

My mother would love to have me live at home, and not only would she not charge me any rent, she wouldn't accept it. She's has no desire to rent out any of the empty rooms. I live far away from home, I pay my own way for everything and I don't ask anything of her, so I don't see how any of this keeps me from "being my own man."

Finally, throwing money away having it taxed 3 times instead of once is stupid, no matter how much you want to bury your head in the sand about it.

 

[fortune]

Originally Posted by Aries

+1, gotta agree with Bob on this one. Even if a parent has no need or want to charge an adult child rent, it is the obligation of a capable child to make a contribution any way. Unless the child is handicapped in someway, I think it just makes sense to be a contributing member of the household. Even kids have chores assigned to them, in most middle class families anyway.

my little brother and sister and I don't. I'm 17, they're 14 and 11. Granted I guess we just do stuff out of random. I do the laundry from time to time and clean up random parts of the house and/or vacuum. My brother on the other hand doesn't do ****. And my sister does a whole lot even when it's not asked of her. Let her alone for the afternoon and she'll clean up the whole house out of boredom. She's done it before

 

[Huntsman]

Well, let's see...

I live with my father and a sibling. I stayed home when my Mom was diagnosed with a third recurrence of cancer (brain that time), started doing all the cooking and all the housework, and generally helped out untill she died. We moved in the middle of all that, and after it was over I spent about six months commuting to the old place to fix it up so we could sell it while my father worked. Taxes on two places plus a new mortgage plus a legacy of major medical bills are rough. After that I finally made it to college, but I picked a college I could commute to because my elderly grandfather was living with us, as well as my one sibling, who has a disability, but could still look after him. I missed out on alot in college because I near always came home as soon as I could to spread out the caregiving. I never asked my family to cover my college bills because we were pretty strapped from all the prior, and I have $60k in loans.

When I finished college, I took a job based mostly on proximity (that happened to be the perfect job by accident), so I could be close by, but my grandfather wound up really deteriorating and wound up in a nursing home just as I started.

Now, for the first time in a decade, I'm not really needed anymore. I still do the hpusework and the cooking. My job is two miles away, and if I was to move anywhere within ten miles except the worst part of the one city I'd be paying well over $300k for a hovel. The only reasonable alternative would be to build a place on our own land. But why should I do that without a family/wife to install? So I am here. I try to be revenue-neutral, as far as any bills that include me go, but my father won't accept a cent from me in any official fashion. I offered of course, but he simply would not hear of it. I really do not feel badly about that.

It's this simple: Either you're a leech or you're not. Either you have the skills to make it on your own or you don't. The rest of this sophistry is ****.

~ Huntsman

 

[rdawson808]

Originally Posted by dtmt

Again, your arguments are all based on flawed premesis:

1) All parents want kids to pay rent.
2) All parents would rent out the children's rooms once the kids move out

My mother would love to have me live at home, and not only would she not charge me any rent, she wouldn't accept it. She's has no desire to rent out any of the empty rooms. I live far away from home, I pay my own way for everything and I don't ask anything of her, so I don't see how any of this keeps me from "being my own man."

Finally, throwing money away having it taxed 3 times instead of once is stupid, no matter how much you want to bury your head in the sand about it.


Okay, I'm going to give up. Apparently you're blind or can't read or something. I said "If your mom doesn't want to charge you rent, then fine. That's her business." My argument is premised on her wanting to charge you rent--as was your statement that you couldn't understand a parent doing so. End of story.

And your money doesn't get taxed three times.

Your mother pays income tax on her income. If that includes your rent, that's still only once (and that's a huge assumption that she'll actually declare it).

You pay income tax on your income. If you then pay rent, you don't get taxed a second time for paying it. Your mother (or your landlord) does because it's part of her income.

You then, as the one inheriting her estate, pay an estate tax because you've been gifted something. Again, it's taxed once for you. Whether or not your mother paid taxes in the process of builing the estate, is beside the point. And I'm not about to get into a political discussion about whether estate taxes are "fair" or not.

b

 

[dtmt]

Well, I said from my very first post that my mom would not want to charge me money, and your subsequent posts made it sound like you couldn't understand that, so I felt the need to repeat myself. I guess I just didn't expect that someone would make such a long-winded irrelevant tirade if they actually understood the premises of the conversation.

And yes, taxed three times. Again, in case you had trouble counting:
1) Original income tax
2) Parents income tax on rent
3) Inheritance tax

 

[MichaelVH]

I think being independant and autonomous is part of being a healthy, mature, adult.

I prefer to live in my small apartment, to have worked days and attended night classes, to buy cheap groceries, to spend my time off taking college courses, paying my own way through school and accumulating debt.

Whats important to myself is not living in a big house, or saving money, or avoiding student loans; whats important is living my life with the freedom, liberty and creativity.

As well, being independant, my relationship with my family has only strengthened and become more fruitful and cherished.

 

[Get Smart]

Moved out when I started college at 17...never moved back

but I visit them 2-3x month since they live 40 min away

 

[Saucemaster]

Doesn't this vary wildly depending on the poster, the poster's family, the poster's culture, and a million and one other variables? It seems kind of insane for people to be getting pissy with each other about this.

As a broad sort of generalization, I admit that I'm inclined to look more favorably on someone who struck out on his/her own as soon as possible, but that's not so much a value judgment as it is a recognition that we probably have something in common. I left home for college at 18, and never went back. I love my parents, but I purposefully chose schools that were well beyond any possible commuting distance. I get the sense when I visit them on holidays that if it was up to them, my parents would STILL have me on a curfew now, and I left home a decade ago.

 

[persid]

My parents moved away two years ago, when I turned 21...accross the world, to another continent. Does that make me a man?

 

[acidboy]

My $0.02:

If your parents still treat you like a damn child, move away.

If they now see you as an adult with responsibilities, and they treat you like an adult, and you like each other, live with them if you like.