Detroit

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by briancl

However, Detroit Metro is a sad, sad place which represents a division of the haves vs have-not's, and no place is that separation clearer than residential Detroit. You have safe, clean, fun, exciting places for nightlife, sports, festivals, etc downtown surrounded by block after block of crack houses, violent crime, police corruption, terrible public schools, and complete lack of basic amenities (no grocery stores, movie theaters, libraries, hardly any commerce at all). Yes there is a lot of grotesque crime in Detroit, but the police do a good job of keeping that out of the core downtown.

I could go on for days explaining the reasons and the consequences.. the downward spiral which was started by white flight and the suburban sprawl and has been willfully perpetuated through blatant modern-day racism and actions such as voting down public transportation which creates physical barriers to augment the psychological barriers that exist in Detroit.

You can't have that conversation without talking about the negative impact of the Coleman Young machine. Coleman was first elected in 1973 and served five terms. Flash foward to the 21st century, and Eminem made a movie and named it after Coleman's most lasting achievement.

 

[briancl]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

You can't have that conversation without talking about the negative impact of the Coleman Young machine. Coleman was first elected in 1973 and served five terms. Flash foward to the 21st century, and Eminem made a movie and named it after Coleman's most lasting achievement.

If you mean that he helped perpetuate the city vs suburb mentality, then yes, you are correct. You can't have the conversation about the separation of wealth in Detroit Metro without mentioning that the Mayor of Detroit for 20 years didn't like the suburbs.

However, Coleman Young was mayor of Detroit during the worst period of urban crime and drug use across the US in modern history. Whoever was in that seat had to focus on the city. And, not only did he have the nationwide problems to deal with, but he had a failing auto industry to wrestle with as well.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by briancl

If you mean that he helped perpetuate the city vs suburb mentality, then yes, you are correct. You can't have the conversation about the separation of wealth in Detroit Metro without mentioning that the Mayor of Detroit for 20 years didn't like the suburbs.

It was more than "didn't like the suburbs." He hated the suburbs with a passion and blamed much of Detroit's ills on the 'burbs. You mentioned white flight? There was black fight too. The black middle class left Detroit too. He seemed to take active steps in driving the tax base out of Detroit, putting the city into a death spiral.

Originally Posted by briancl

However, Coleman Young was mayor of Detroit during the worst period of urban crime and drug use across the US in modern history. Whoever was in that seat had to focus on the city. And, not only did he have the nationwide problems to deal with, but he had a failing auto industry to wrestle with as well.

Agreed. However, Detroit has never recovered and I lay much of this at Coleman's feet. Many cities have not only recovered, but flourished. I think that the Coleman legacy might be Detroit's fatal flaw.

 

[mink31]

Who was better for the city: Young or Kwame?

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by mink31

Who was better for the city: Young or Kwame?

The answer is: Archer.

 

[briancl]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

The answer is: Archer.

Archer did many great things and tried to re-establish the natural linkage between suburb and city. Kwame has fumbled with this legacy, but he hasn't worked directly against the agenda. Today, downtown Detroit is a fine place to visit, and if you can't find a way to enjoy a nice summer night downtown, well, you're probably just another debbie-downer looking to crap on a city trying to recover.

The problems Detroit has had in general over the past 15-30 years are very specific to Detroit. The auto industry has been a leading cause of these problems, and I'm not talking about only the bottom line of the Big 3. The culture of Detroit Metro is one of isolation and protection. The Big 3, even when profitable, represent an industry unwilling to adapt or innovate, and instead, they harbor protectionist practices from the bottom up. Whether you are looking at union, white collar, or management workers, the mentality is "What is best for me" and "What is the easiest way to get something done without drawing attention." The negative consequences of these organizations ripple through the entire state as failing businesses are unable change and insulate themselves from any economic hiccups.

 

[briancl]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Agreed. However, Detroit has never recovered and I lay much of this at Coleman's feet. Many cities have not only recovered, but flourished. I think that the Coleman legacy might be Detroit's fatal flaw.

My last post sort of talks to this point, but I wanted to add that blaming a Mayor who left office 15 years ago for present day problems is a bit of a stretch. Plus, you are looking only at one side. The suburban side of the problem has the resources to enact change much more easily than the urban side. That said, it is always the urban side who is driving to make any changes whatsoever, and the suburban side only occasionally steps in to stifle progress *cough* People Mover *cough*.

I wonder how much time you've spent in Detroit in the past 5 years. I lived there for 4 of them, and as an outsider, I had an interesting perspective. #1 I have zero affiliation either direct or indirect to the auto industry and #2 I am not from Michigan or even the Midwest. The younger generation who grew up being about the bad stuff that happens in the city and to stay away are embracing downtown as a real city. Even though the city has progressed far ahead of where the city once was even only 10 years ago, the older generation still believes all of the nonsense they fed their children about it being a bad place. The difference between the two age groups is very clear, and no one is bashful of their opinions.

The reason an outsider has a different perspective has a lot to do with how #1 auto industry folks view their home city, and #2 how locals view their home city.

Auto Industry people blame the other Big 2 for many problems, and the rest of the blame goes on the "Dumb Customer" who doesn't "get" their company's model lineup. It's hard to have a clear view of one's surrounding when you are clouded in so much denial.

Some of the locals are so in love with their home suburb, that they cannot fathom living anywhere else. I notice this trend to increase in distance from the city. The farthest suburbs have the most dedicated residents. This is a bit ironic to me because Detroit suburbs are terribly boring and common. They offer very little outside of "protection" from the big mean city. It really says something if you chose to pitch your tent as far away from the city as possible. The people who live in the more central suburbs seem to "get it" more than others.

Anyway, my ramblings have really stopped making sense, so I'll stop now. My only point here was to share my opinions and experiences. Maybe others have some thoughts?

 

[Piobaire]

We should move this to another forum. Interesting thought though that it was the union/protectionist mind set that hurt the city.

 

[bdeuce22]

i am sure this will be a spot-on adaptation of the Young years.

Coleman A. Young

 

[eidolon]

I hate to take away from a civics discussion, but I have a 3+ hour layover at Detro Metro in a few months, which basically equals 2 1/2 hours of free time counting check-in and going back through security. I don't suppose there's anything I could do in that amount of time that anyone would recommend?

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by bdeuce22

i am sure this will be a spot-on adaptation of the Young years.

Coleman A. Young

Good article though. Even the article noted he's going to have to do part of the movie in LA as the black middle class neighborhoods are gone. Just like I said, Coleman drove out the black middle class too.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by eidolon

I hate to take away from a civics discussion, but I have a 3+ hour layover at Detro Metro in a few months, which basically equals 2 1/2 hours of free time counting check-in and going back through security. I don't suppose there's anything I could do in that amount of time that anyone would recommend?

Good luck on that. That's cutting it tight. Maybe a run down 94 to La Shish? That might fit your time constraints and it's a very famous middle eastern place. Have the lamb shawarma with hummus plate.

 

[ChicagoRon]

Originally Posted by eidolon

I hate to take away from a civics discussion, but I have a 3+ hour layover at Detro Metro in a few months, which basically equals 2 1/2 hours of free time counting check-in and going back through security. I don't suppose there's anything I could do in that amount of time that anyone would recommend?
Take a cab and $200 bucks to the Flight Club. It's about 10 minutes from the airport. Assume 15 minutes each way and you have time for 10 lap dances.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Good luck on that. That's cutting it tight. Maybe a run down 94 to La Shish? That might fit your time constraints and it's a very famous middle eastern place. Have the lamb shawarma with hummus plate.
Last I heard, La Shish is closed b/c Talal was funneling the profits to Hezbollah. http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a But Miller's Bar (great burgers) is a stone's throw from the airport.

 

[Duveen]

Originally Posted by eidolon

I hate to take away from a civics discussion, but I have a 3+ hour layover at Detro Metro in a few months, which basically equals 2 1/2 hours of free time counting check-in and going back through security. I don't suppose there's anything I could do in that amount of time that anyone would recommend?

Not a ton of time to really do much, and DTW is a bit aways from city. My wife's family is from Detroit metro area, and I have fallen in love with the cheap delicacy that is the Coney Dog (hot dog with onions, chili, mustard). You could enjoy a couple of Coneys in the comfort of the airport in the A gate, and drink a few beers.

On 2nd thought, maybe the lapdances aren't such a bad idea...

 

[dtmt]

Originally Posted by eidolon

I hate to take away from a civics discussion, but I have a 3+ hour layover at Detro Metro in a few months, which basically equals 2 1/2 hours of free time counting check-in and going back through security. I don't suppose there's anything I could do in that amount of time that anyone would recommend?
The problem is that anything worth going to will involve at least a 1hr round trip, so you would barely just have enough time to finish your meal before having to rush back. If you had a little more time, say like 4-5 hours, I would recommend going to Ann Arbor. Anyway, the new NWA terminal (McNamara) is pretty nice. If you're not already landing there I would probably take a shuttle over there and have a leisurely meal. The other terminals are pretty old and run down.