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Delicious Wines

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by itsstillmatt, Mar 21, 2011.

  1. Mark from Plano

    Mark from Plano Senior member

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    Trimbach is pure win.

    [​IMG]

    Can anybody recommend a cheap dry, French red that is good for casual drinking? A decent table wine so to speak? I can never seem to find a decent French red for under $25

    Cru Beaujolais. Especially now, the 2009 Cru Beaujolais are fantastic (at least the ones I've tried) and still pretty cheap. I find that locating a particular one is difficult because it just depends on what your local wine shop decides to carry. However, I had a 2009 Domaine de la Conseillère JuliÃ[​IMG]nas (made by Mommessin, so should have decent distribution) was just fan-freaking-tastic. Had a Fleurie from one of their labels the other night that was pretty decent too. Great lighter weight summer reds. I paid $15 for the Fleurie and $13 for the JuliÃ[​IMG]nas.

    IMO, a much better value for my drinking pleasure than any of the lower $ bordeaux I've ever tried (and I love Bordeaux).
     
  2. gomestar

    gomestar Senior member

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    I'm still not a big fan of Cru Beaujolais despite the love they get from a lot of people [​IMG]

    It's not that I don't like what I've had or that I've had bad ones (boring yes, bad no), but I just find a good Dolcetto to be more exciting.
     
  3. Mark from Plano

    Mark from Plano Senior member

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    I'm still not a big fan of Cru Beaujolais despite the love they get from a lot of people [​IMG]

    It's not that I don't like what I've had or that I've had bad ones (boring yes, bad no), but I just find a good Dolcetto to be more exciting.


    As difficult to find as Cru Beux are here in the hinterlands, Dolcetto's are worse. Can't remember the last time I saw one on a shop shelf. Not that I'm looking that hard, but I do scan through the Eyeties pretty regularly.

    For Cru Beau, I have basically one store in Dallas that carries a decent selection. If there's someplace in Dallas that carries more than 1 or 2 Dolcetto's I don't know about it.

    Also, the JuliÃ[​IMG]nas I mentioned above was far from boring to my tastes. It was a "Delicious Wine" in the full spirit of this threak.
     
  4. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    As difficult to find as Cru Beux are here in the hinterlands, Dolcetto's are worse. Can't remember the last time I saw one on a shop shelf. Not that I'm looking that hard, but I do scan through the Eyeties pretty regularly.

    For Cru Beau, I have basically one store in Dallas that carries a decent selection. If there's someplace in Dallas that carries more than 1 or 2 Dolcetto's I don't know about it.

    Also, the JuliÃ[​IMG]nas I mentioned above was far from boring to my tastes. It was a "Delicious Wine" in the full spirit of this threak.


    Yeah I am going to have to go with Gome on this one. I have found most Cru Beax to be a bit uninteresting and a bit too light.

    What's the deal with Merlot? I don't think I can remember a time where I drank a straight Merlot.
     
  5. gomestar

    gomestar Senior member

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    Merlot is great, especially right bank Bordeaux. A lot of this is blended, but so are a lot of Cali wines that are labeled as stright merlot (they are allowed 15% of 'other' varietals even though the label only says merlot)
     
  6. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    CA Merlot is pretty blah. It's made, mostly, in that super soft style meant for people who "don't like red wine but I like this!!!"

    Right bank Bord typically has some Cab Sauv and Cab Franc and is more interesting.
     
  7. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    CA Merlot is pretty blah. It's made, mostly, in that super soft style meant for people who "don't like red wine but I like this!!!"

    Right bank Bord typically has some Cab Sauv and Cab Franc and is more interesting.


    I was just about to say I had a Merlot Cab Franc blend about 3 years ago that was fantastic.
     
  8. mordecai

    mordecai Senior member

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    CA Merlot is pretty blah. It's made, mostly, in that super soft style meant for people who "don't like red wine but I like this!!!" Right bank Bord typically has some Cab Sauv and Cab Franc and is more interesting.
    I've heard Duckhorn puts out some nice Merlot. You guys are speaking a language mostly foreign to me at this point however.
     
  9. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I've heard Duckhorn puts out some nice Merlot. You guys are speaking a language mostly foreign to me at this point however.

    There are a few CA merlot producers that try to make complex wines but this is the exception.

    One problem is that CA has never really gotten over the varietal complex so they think that for a wine to be good and prestigious it has to be all from one grape. The French simply do not think this way.
     
  10. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    There are a few CA merlot producers that try to make complex wines but this is the exception.

    One problem is that CA has never really gotten over the varietal complex so they think that for a wine to be good and prestigious it has to be all from one grape. The French simply do not think this way.


    In my limited experience blended grapes make for a more well rounded taste.
     
  11. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    There are a few CA merlot producers that try to make complex wines but this is the exception.

    One problem is that CA has never really gotten over the varietal complex so they think that for a wine to be good and prestigious it has to be all from one grape. The French simply do not think this way.


    I'm not a California wine fan, but this statement just isn't true. The French are as rigorous as anyone in the world about non-blending in white and red burgundy, and there are california wines that are considered world class (Harlan, for example) and are varietal blends of no fewer than three or four grapes.

    A
     
  12. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'm not a California wine fan, but this statement just isn't true. The French are as rigorous as anyone in the world about non-blending in white and red burgundy, and there are california wines that are considered world class (Harlan, for example) and are varietal blends of no fewer than three or four grapes.

    A


    The point is, the reason the french don't blend burg is not because they are wedded to the idea of the "varietal" but because it does not make for better wine (except at the low, low end). They have (obviously) no problem blending Bordeaux and Rhone, red and white, at every level of the quality chain because they know it makes for better wine and because there is no marketing rationale or consumer expectation that the wine all come from one grape.

    In Napa, by contrast, the whole industry is built around the varietal and has been since the revival in the late '60s. Wines with one grape name on them are seen as more prestigious and you can charge more for them. The "meritage" concept tries to get around that but hasn't really taken root and they don't command the same prices.

    So, there are some exceptions but by and large the top reds in Napa are varietals and all the way down the price chain you will see ten varietals for every meritage and the varietals will command generally higher prices. This is true even though, IMO, many of these wines would be better if they were blends.
     
  13. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    One footnote. The reason why the California varietal craze took off is that for many, many years the vast majoirty of the wine made in California was A) plonk and B) labeled with some phony French name, e.g., "Chablis" or "hearty Burgundy." The two great exceptions happened to be California's only two genuine premium wines, BV Reserve and Inglenook.

    When people finally started making good wine and investing in wineries in the 1960s they had to shake off that image. They concluded, with some justice, that they could not simply sell the wine based on the name of the estate or vineyard the way you could do in France because people would not know enough to be impressed. Lafite or Chambertin are storied names but "To Kalon" and "Napanook" were not, at least not then.

    So the idea was to use the name of the grape, which also had the beneift of "informing the consumer." Chateau Latour, it's expensive and it tastes good, but what the hell is in it? Robert Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon? Hey, I know what that is!

    It was a reasonable strategy at the time but I think CA should have moved on long ago.

    To some extent it has, in that a bottle only has to be 85% of one grape in order to have that grape's name on the label. This allows winemakers some leeway with blending while preserving the marketing advantage of using the varietal name, which consumers understand and expect. However, 85% is still pretty high. Most Bordeaux are not 85% of any one grape and many Bords and Rhones are not even above 50% of any one grape. Well, in California you either have to call that "Meritage" or else just put some place name or brand name on it. It works with the cult wines but they are like 0.00001% of the market.
     
  14. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    The point is, the reason the french don't blend burg is not because they are wedded to the idea of the "varietal" but because it does not make for better wine (except at the low, low end).

    I'm not sure why you would say that. The AOC laws are about more than just making "better" wine. There are numerous vignerons who have tried blending burgundy grapes over the years (for example, Remoissenet). I doubt they thought it made the wines worse.
    A
     
  15. gomestar

    gomestar Senior member

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    I thought Harlan is 100% cab?
     
  16. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'm not sure why you would say that. The AOC laws are about more than just making "better" wine. There are numerous vignerons who have tried blending burgundy grapes over the years (for example, Remoissenet). I doubt they thought it made the wines worse.
    A


    The AOC laws are codifications of tradition, not the reverse.
     
  17. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I thought Harlan is 100% cab?

    It is now but it used to be a blend.
     
  18. foodguy

    foodguy Senior member

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    To some extent it has, in that a bottle only has to be 85% of one grape in order to have that grape's name on the label. This allows winemakers some leeway with blending while preserving the marketing advantage of using the varietal name, which consumers understand and expect. However, 85% is still pretty high. Most Bordeaux are not 85% of any one grape and many Bords and Rhones are not even above 50% of any one grape. Well, in California you either have to call that "Meritage" or else just put some place name or brand name on it. It works with the cult wines but they are like 0.00001% of the market.

    i agree with much of what my learned friend has to say, but actually, i think blends are becoming more and more important in california ... in a way, this is last year's complaint. in fact, when you're talking about zinfandel, blends have become so important that there is a schism in the cult ... ZAP refuses to allow zin-based blends to participate, even though those are some of the best wines (historically, zins were almost always blended, up until the varietal craze). also, the rage of the moment are rhone-like wines, many of which are blends. this has been slow to happen at the high end, but for cheaper wines, these are some of the best values available in california. in fact, with some good producers, i like their cheaper blends more than their more expensive varietals.
     
  19. kwilkinson

    kwilkinson Senior member

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    ^That's a great point. CA is making some killer blends for ~$10 a bottle.
     
  20. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    ^That's a great point. CA is making some killer blends for ~$10 a bottle.

    Like what? I recently had a blend called III Somms that I enjoyed, but it was closer to $25 than $10.
    A
     

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