changing careers, going to graduate school when you are 33

[Valor]

In light of this thread, I would suggest you not pursue any of the programs we discussed in PM. There are students similar to you with stronger credentials, and all of them are struggling for the jobs you're seeking.

Also, you your citizenship is probably one of the biggest factors in hiring qualified candidates these days.

 

[miran]

Originally Posted by Valor

In light of this thread, I would suggest you not pursue any of the programs we discussed in PM. There are students similar to you with stronger credentials, and all of them are struggling for the jobs you're seeking.

Also, you your citizenship is probably one of the biggest factors in hiring qualified candidates these days.

OK, thanks.

LOL though, you can judge credentials based on this thread? wow!

 

[miran]

Originally Posted by Valor

In light of this thread, I would suggest you not pursue any of the programs we discussed in PM. There are students similar to you with stronger credentials, and all of them are struggling for the jobs you're seeking. Also, you your citizenship is probably one of the biggest factors in hiring qualified candidates these days.
Also, for JayJay and anyone else who is interested: This is the Programs we were discussing in PM http://www.ieor.columbia.edu/pages/g...eng/index.html http://www.math.columbia.edu/department/mafn/ You can check out the websites yourself, but the tuition per year is on the level of $37,000 per year to $50, 000 per year. Also, >95% of the students are international, at least for the MAFN program. By international, the overwhelming majority are from India or China. My citizenship is Canada, I live in Montreal, I am of Moroccan descent if that matters to you---it has been pointed out all of these may hinder my chances at a job. I am having a really tough time getting a straight answer out of the program admins as to what their placement rate is, that is what fraction of graduates find jobs when they graduate. Depending on who you talk to, it is as low as 30%! For what it's worth, I have been admitted to the MAFN, and as has been correctly pointed out, my credentials are not exactly stellar. Depending on who you talk to, obvious, each will claim one of these programs is better than the other. The programs are also fast become classic, textbook examples of "CASH COWS" for cash-strapped American universities. Now, JayJay, hopefully you can clearly see what I am referring to.

 

[Valor]

I said credentials, not abilities.

There are a few PHDs, the problem is if you're mid 30s with a PHD and you want to transition into finance, only companies that want you are ones that want quants and if you're good enough at math/sci to be a quant, you can just learn some finance (how to price a bond wahoo!) on the side and get a job as a quant.

I'm just telling you the facts, placement is definitely not 30% overall, it's lower. Most of the internationals end up going home because they can't find a job in New York and then they join the pool of students who found "placement." With Canadian citizenship you should have some leverage for finance in Canada if that's what you're looking for, but I know basically nothing about the Canadian finance market.

I'm not saying the program can't help you, I'm saying the odds are stacked against you, you're 33 looking for a entry level job in finance that most companies want 23 year olds to fill. And you said in PM you don't want to code/quant. I don't know many non-quant trading firms who's ideal candidate for "trader" or "assistant trader" is a 33 year old with a science background.

All this is moot, if you think you're a strong candidate and are willing to work really really hard, and by that I mean top 10% of a fairly mediocre class (just study hard duh), you are guaranteed a 100-300k job.

 

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by miran

Also, for JayJay and anyone else who is interested:

This is the Programs we were discussing in PM


http://www.ieor.columbia.edu/pages/g...eng/index.html

http://www.math.columbia.edu/department/mafn/



You can check out the websites yourself, but the tuition per year is on the level of $37,000 per year to $50, 000 per year.


Also, >95% of the students are international, at least for the MAFN program. By international, the overwhelming majority are from India or China.

My citizenship is Canada, I live in Montreal, I am of Moroccan descent if that matters to you---it has been pointed out all of these may hinder my chances at a job.

I am having a really tough time getting a straight answer out of the program admins as to what their placement rate is, that is what fraction of graduates find jobs when they graduate. Depending on who you talk to, it is as low as 30%!

For what it's worth, I have been admitted to the MAFN, and as has been correctly pointed out, my credentials are not exactly stellar. Depending on who you talk to, obvious, each will claim one of these programs is better than the other.

The programs are also fast become classic, textbook examples of "CASH COWS" for cash-strapped American universities.


Now, JayJay, hopefully you can clearly see what I am referring to.

Ok, now I get what you're seeking. I'd suggest talking to a few students currently in the program as well as alums, if possible.

By the way, Valor makes some good points that shouldn't be taken lightly.

 

[miran]

Originally Posted by JayJay

Ok, now I get what you're seeking. They appear to be good programs but do continue to pressure them on their placement rates. I'd suggest talking to a few students currently in the program as well as alums, if possible. Good luck!


LOL...Mr Jayjay.....never judge a program by its webpage!

 

[miran]

Originally Posted by Valor

I said credentials, not abilities.

There are a few PHDs, the problem is if you're mid 30s with a PHD and you want to transition into finance, only companies that want you are ones that want quants and if you're good enough at math/sci to be a quant, you can just learn some finance (how to price a bond wahoo!) on the side and get a job as a quant.

I'm just telling you the facts, placement is definitely not 30% overall, it's lower. Most of the internationals end up going home because they can't find a job in New York and then they join the pool of students who found "placement." With Canadian citizenship you should have some leverage for finance in Canada if that's what you're looking for, but I know basically nothing about the Canadian finance market.

I'm not saying the program can't help you, I'm saying the odds are stacked against you, you're 33 looking for a entry level job in finance that most companies want 23 year olds to fill. And you said in PM you don't want to code/quant. I don't know many non-quant trading firms who's ideal candidate for "trader" or "assistant trader" is a 33 year old with a science background.

All this is moot, if you think you're a strong candidate and are willing to work really really hard, and by that I mean top 10% of a fairly mediocre class (just study hard duh), you are guaranteed a 100-300k job.


Gotcha.

Yes, the age is definitely stacked against me. They want people who are very very young, everyone who has tried to find these jobs told me the same thing. I don't know why. and yes, I do not want to code.


That placement info is depressing.

 

[trader]

what kind of position do you want exactly?

 

[miran]

Originally Posted by trader

what kind of position do you want exactly?

to run a trading desk, commodities like mining/metals.

i do it for fun so i might as well make it my job.
if the real thing on the job is too stressful, risk management. i heard its the least stress.

 

[Joenobody0]

Two years ago I seriously considered attending the MFE program at Berkeley Haas. I spoke to a professor highly involved with the program, who I won't name, and he told me not to bother. He said they were having significant trouble finding jobs for their graduates and didn't expect that to change in the next 3-5 years.

This professor suggested I look for work in the field without an MFE (which I did successfully). If you can't find any job in this field without an MFE, you probably won't find a good job when you have the degree.

 

[miran]

Originally Posted by Joenobody0

Two years ago I seriously considered attending the MFE program at Berkeley Haas. I spoke to a professor highly involved with the program, who I won't name, and he told me not to bother. He said they were having significant trouble finding jobs for their graduates and didn't expect that to change in the next 3-5 years.

This professor suggested I look for work in the field without an MFE (which I did successfully). If you can't find any job in this field without an MFE, you probably won't find a good job when you have the degree.

Very interesting, thank you for posting this!

Did this person recommend getting some sort of accreditation on your own? Like "wilmotts"? from my experience, applying for jobs blind and cold without any legitimate background doesn't really get you anywhere.

 

[Joenobody0]

Originally Posted by miran

Very interesting, thank you for posting this!

Did this person recommend getting some sort of accreditation on your own? Like "wilmotts"? from my experience, applying for jobs blind and cold without any legitimate background doesn't really get you anywhere.

I think the people who get these jobs tend to have the background for them. That's what I meant when I said "if you can't get a job in this field without an MFE, you're not going to be able to get a good job with the MFE." Having no background + MFE might get you into something, but it's not going to be a top job. On the other hand, you're probably more likely to end up with 100k+ in debt and no job.

If you must try to do this then get your CFA. If you can't handle the CFA exams, this isn't the field for you.

Your unwillingness to code is going to keep you out of every entry level job I've ever seen. One of the common questions for entry level positions is "number of lines of SAS code written." Entry level = code monkey at best, and Excel jockey at worst. Also, being from Canada is going to be a big negative if you want to work in the US.

 

[miran]

Originally Posted by Joenobody0

I think the people who get these jobs tend to have the background for them. That's what I meant when I said "if you can't get a job in this field without an MFE, you're not going to be able to get a good job with the MFE." Having no background + MFE might get you into something, but it's not going to be a top job. On the other hand, you're probably more likely to end up with 100k+ in debt and no job. If you must try to do this then get your CFA. If you can't handle the CFA exams, this isn't the field for you. Your unwillingness to code is going to keep you out of every entry level job I've ever seen. One of the common questions for entry level positions is "number of lines of SAS code written." Entry level = code monkey at best, and Excel jockey at worst. Also, being from Canada is going to be a big negative if you want to work in the US.
Can you please tell me what you mean by "having the background"? I thought the point of an MFE was to give you the background? CFA and MFE content are worlds apart though. If anything, actuarial exams are the closest thing. also, maybe you won't agree, but CFA is totally useless for the most part if your career goals are in quantitative finance.

 

[trader]

i'm really wondering if you're trolling...

 

[Joenobody0]

Originally Posted by miran

Can you please tell me what you mean by "having the background"? I thought the point of an MFE was to give you the background?

CFA and MFE content are worlds apart though. If anything, actuarial exams are the closest thing. also, maybe you won't agree, but CFA is totally useless for the most part if your career goals are in quantitative finance.

Become an Actuary. It's an easy job to get and you probably have the background for it. Problem solved.