British Style Genius

[Get Smart]

yea zoot suited pachucos definitely come to mind...unfortunately the US doesnt have any home grown subcultures that were as stylish or immaculate as British ones. Pachucos, while stylish and having their own look, appear a bit cartoony and clownish in hindsight, whereas the British fellas really did come up with a few timeless looks that never get dated.

guys in the early 60s garage pacific northwest garage scene dressed nice, but it wasnt necessarily a garage scene attire, but more of wearing what was in vogue at the time.

but don't forget the 50s American jazz scene. Ivy league style is where you really had a sartorial class revolt since IL clothes were worn by well to do types, then appropriated by jazz musicians and fans who were taking something that belong to an upper class and making it their own. This is the birthplace for British mod and skinhead style, since those subcultures took nearly all their cues from American Ivy League style and added some extra attitude to it. All the scenes that are looked at as "cool" ultimately can be traced back to American Ivy League looks of the 50s.

It's amazing how little tweeking you need to do in order to turn a proper skinhead or mod into a boring fogey "trad", and vice versa. So much of the clothes are shared by both types even tho the attitude is 180 degrees apart and nothing alike.

 

[Vashin]

Originally Posted by Master-Classter

Wow, that was really interesting. Thanks.

PS - that suit featured in part 1 at 4:50 or so, notice the turnback cuffs? Anyone remember the sartorialist pic with that guy on the chair with a bamboo cane?

Any ideas on where to find a modern version of that, or in what sort of timeperiod to look for in vintage stores?

Yea the turnback cuffs were pretty cool, I wish I could see more examples of that.

 

[Lysol]

Originally Posted by robbie

'Casual' seems to stick out like such a sore thumb amongst all the sub-cultures before it IMO.
I haven't had a chance to watch the show yet but having grown up during the heyday of the second wave of casuals and having had the Britpop / hardcore punk schizophrenia that seemed to be common at the time (i.e. finding it perfectly acceptable to be into both Morrissey, Oasis, and Blur as well as the Cro Mags, AF and first wave British street punk) I have a soft spot for the casuals look. Growing up in the US and not having much interest in clothes at that time, I was more just aware than having participated but these days I do have a few pieces from 6876 and OneTrueSaxon hanging in my closet and one day I will own a CP goggle coat. In hindsight, many are likely to give it a bad rep because it was a bunch of streetwise kids blowing entire paychecks on trainers and dressing like prima donnas, which sounds an awful lot like what are called chavs today, but, those bands and personalities who were doing it in the 90's looked pretty bad ass. Much more stylish than the corny rave nonsense that was going on here in America at the same time.

 

[Lysol]

Originally Posted by sonofstan

Serious question: Were there/ are there any US sub-cultures that work in the same way as the original Teds/ Mods/ Skins/ and maybe Casuals (though they are/were a slightly different kettle of crocs) - I mean largely working- class, style- obsessed and in particular borrowing from the class enemy. Original zoot suiters? Low riders? I honestly don't know, but I'd like to hear about it.
Two words, as American as apple pie, it's the definition of the lower class taking from the upper class and making it their own, and it transcends race as well as class: HIP HOP.

 

[sonofstan]

Thanks Get Smart... you're absolutely right about the Ivy league thing, filtering into early mod via Jazz. There's a brilliant essay by Colin McInnes on that nascent scene - collected in English, Half- English which i can't lay my hands on at the moment.

 

[bluemagic]

It's a good reminder to stay subversive. Anyone looked at Brooks Brothers S/S 2009 yet, by the way?

 

[London]

Get Smart, you are sorely mistaken. Look at early bepop, or the "cool" period in Jazz. This is just one of the eras in US culture, that can match the Brits pound for stylish pound. style

[/IMG]

 

[Get Smart]

Originally Posted by London

Get Smart, you are sorely mistaken. Look at early bepop, or the "cool" period in Jazz.

um, obviously you didnt read what I wrote

Originally Posted by Get Smart

but don't forget the 50s American jazz scene.

 

[Bona Drag]

This is dope; only made it through a bit of the first one, but looking forward to the rest.

In terms of the hip hop thing, I don't know if that's a perfect parallel - some rappers do and have latched on to luxury brands (Prada America's Cups are all over the streets right now, Kanye's Louies, etc.), but there's a heavy street/sportswear and workwear influence too: Tims, baggie raw denim or Dickies, hype sneakz, throwback jerseys, white t's/beaters, etc. Sort of a meeting in the middle?

Plus there are always the brands inspired by hip hop that are then embraced by rappers, i.e. Bape. It's a weird melting pot.

 

[robbie]

what are you guys talking about 'emo' thats an American subculture...[is there a puke emoticon]

I think like GS has said, American style reflects a different sort of rebellion. Most of the US subcultures that come to mind that haven't already been mentioned were nowhere near as sharp, and they didn't really reflect any sort of lifestyle. They were highly marketed, superficial, or un-original throwback nostalgia.

 

[freelance robotics]

Hey GS, completely unrelated to anything, but settle this for me: can bowties be mod? My friend says no, I say he's full of it.

 

[London]

my bad, misread

 

[Lysol]

Originally Posted by robbie

Most of the US subcultures that come to mind that haven't already been mentioned were nowhere near as sharp, and they didn't really reflect any sort of lifestyle. They were highly marketed, superficial, or un-original throwback nostalgia.

It's a lot easier to admire from a distance. Where one may think the mods were "sharp" others see goofy Brits dressing like black soul singers from Memphis. Skinheads? "Street style" or "dresses like your grandfather?" It's really all in perception.

There's a lot to be said for the style of the beatniks, the hippies, 60's radicals, the early hardcore punk scene, early 80's hip-hop, etc. and a lot of others outsiders whose American influence can still be found in the way many on this forum still dress.

I don't want to get too off-topic, I love a lot of the looks that are discussed in this thread and have nothing but love but there needs to be more love for American style up in here and less self-hate.

 

[robbie]

I love a lot of the looks that are discussed in this thread and have nothing but love but there needs to be more love for American style up in here and less self-hate.

Agreed, a thread should be started!

 

[khoi]

Some more reading that I thought could add to this thread

http://entertainment.ralphlauren.com...8/Ivy_Jazz.asp