1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

Bentley v Rolls Royce

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by PCabrelli, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. Southern-Nupe

    Southern-Nupe Senior member

    Messages:
    3,561
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    Who buys a RR or Bentley with reliability in mind? In late 2007, Top Gear reviewed the RR Phantom Drop Head (if I remember correctly, James May drove it). To paraphrase, he said it was sweetest car on the planet.

    Lexus and MB make very nice cars. But, to compare RR and Bentley to Lexus or MB is feeble. It's a whole different league of car.

    True, most of the people who purchase those cars, seldom consider reliabilty, the same can apply to Ferrari, Aston, etc.

    ....their only current competition is the Maybach on the high end, and maybe Maserati Quattro on the low end (Bentley Continental).
     
  2. Shraka

    Shraka Senior member

    Messages:
    628
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Now, if Toyota would just bring back an MR2 like the SW11... I'd be set.
    Actually, it's an SW20. The AW11 (and AW10) is the 80s model Lotus that Lotus decided not to make, so Toyota picked it up. There was never an SW11. S stands for S series engine (in this case, 3S-GE and 3S-GTE). The A in AW11 is the 4A-GE and 4A-GZE. The SW20 does totally kick arse. A friend of mine is getting one. Apparently the late model SW20 was given softer suspension and a weaker rear swaybar because people complained about the tendancy to snap oversteer. This problem was because it was very well balanced, and rear wheel drive, making it take corners really well. In fact the ZZW30 was an okay car too, the problem was the engine / gearbox combination. If they'd put the 2ZZ-GE (rather than shitty 1ZZ-FE) in it, and given it a proper manual and hard top it would have been a total machine! But alas, no. Toyota decided to be lame and make a car for girls. Toyota should bring back the Supra and a proper MR2.
    ... and Celica (turbo w/awd).
    The Celica GT-Four wasn't actually that good. It was trying to compete with the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution and Subaru WRX Sti but failed. It was really heavy compared to it's competition, and didn't make much power. The ST185 made 150kw, and was 1400+kg. The ST205 got a more impressive 180kw, but was closer to 1500kg. Meanwhile the Evo and WRX were closer to 1200kg, and making 180 to 205kw with more torque. EDIT: As a side note, the SW20 MR2 got the same engine as the GT-Four, but only had to power the back wheels (less losses in the drivetrain) and was closer to 1050kg! The GT Four was better when it was rallied, as it was stripped out, but plenty of rally drivers complained about the 'road racer' style seating position which was low, and not as good for the rough, random roads of dirt rally. Eventually Toyota got the Corolla and put the GT-Four running gear under it. Now THAT would have been good, if they'd released it for the consumer market. Sadly they didn't and we got a crappy 1.8Ltr ~120kw Turbo FWD Corolla instead, which is crap because the same year model Levin / Trueno (Based on the Corolla body) was making 130kw from a 1.6 N/A engine.
     
  3. A Y

    A Y Senior member

    Messages:
    5,592
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Location:
    Southern California
    The 1UZ-FE is the best engine Toyota ever made (and possibly the best made by anyone), and it's rumored that BMW stole the design for their new V8 M3.

    Given the provenance of the M3's V8, I doubt this.

    --Andre
     
  4. Southern-Nupe

    Southern-Nupe Senior member

    Messages:
    3,561
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    The GT Four was better when it was rallied, as it was stripped out, but plenty of rally drivers complained about the 'road racer' style seating position which was low, and not as good for the rough, random roads of dirt rally. Eventually Toyota got the Corolla and put the GT-Four running gear under it. Now THAT would have been good, if they'd released it for the consumer market. Sadly they didn't and we got a crappy 1.8Ltr ~120kw Turbo FWD Corolla instead, which is crap because the same year model Levin / Trueno (Based on the Corolla body) was making 130kw from a 1.6 N/A engine.
    I remember it competed in Rally's, but I wasn't aware it wasn't competitive. I guess I was comparing into such cars as the Eclipse (which the earlier generation AWD's were quite quick), Preludes, etc.
     
  5. Brad

    Brad Senior member

    Messages:
    2,297
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Location:
    Beyond Thunderdome
    True, most of the people who purchase those cars, seldom consider reliabilty, the same can apply to Ferrari, Aston, etc.

    ....their only current competition is the Maybach on the high end, and maybe Maserati Quattro on the low end (Bentley Continental).


    I agree. I'm a big MB fran, but the Maybach offerings look too much like MB for me. Have you seen the pricing for the Maybach Landaulet? It's something absurd like 1.37M. Apparently Brabus will mod these.[​IMG]
     
  6. Shraka

    Shraka Senior member

    Messages:
    628
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I remember it competed in Rally's, but I wasn't aware it wasn't competitive. I guess I was comparing into such cars as the Eclipse (which the earlier generation AWD's were quite quick), Preludes, etc.

    It was competitive, but the drivers complained about the seating position. The road going version was a lot heavier and had less power, so wasn't competitive next to the road going WRX and EVO, making it less useful as a club car and low budget racers.

    The Turbo AWD Eclipse (Eclipse GSX) only gets 160kw, so yes it would be closer to the GT-Four assuming it's weight is around 1200-1400kg.
     
  7. Shraka

    Shraka Senior member

    Messages:
    628
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Given the provenance of the M3's V8, I doubt this. --Andre
    I'd say you're right. The M3 V8 was based on the M3 V10, and judging by it's design I wouldn't think it shared much in common with the UZ in any way. Mm yummy: [​IMG]
     
  8. Dragon

    Dragon Senior member

    Messages:
    3,186
    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    However, the UZ-FE is an engine that is universally regarded for its light weight, miserly fuel consumption, high performance, and mechanical durability. I would be interested to see a comparison of the RR Phantom's engine (a BMW 6.7L V12) and the Lexus V8 UZ-FE.

    If I had to guess which engine will offer better reliability over the long-haul: a BMW V12 or a Lexus V8, I would go with the Lexus V8. The reasons should be fairly obvious.


    I don`t think it`s so interesting to see a comparison between the BMW 6.7L v12 and the Toyota V8. They are completely 2 different engine classes to be put in 2 COMPLETELY different chassis. They are both well made engines for their respective classes.

    I agree with some of the points you made on the Bentley, etc., but I really don`t follow the reliability point. If reliability is THE FACTOR in determining best build, then there are very cheap engines that will run forever you look.

    Who buys a RR or Bentley with reliability in mind? In late 2007, Top Gear reviewed the RR Phantom Drop Head (if I remember correctly, James May drove it). To paraphrase, he said it was sweetest car on the planet.

    Lexus and MB make very nice cars. But, to compare RR and Bentley to Lexus or MB is feeble. It's a whole different league of car.


    Exactly.

    To start out, the chassis of the RR is completely different. Cheap cars like the Lexus are like the world`s best machine made, fused jacket. They start with a well made (but cheap) steel unibody and stack on everything from there (engine, body, etc....sometimes they attach sub-frames made in more expensive materials) Everything like your cheap Hyundai is built like this, but there is probably a huge difference between the Hyundai and Lexus too.

    The RR is like a handmade, canvased jacket with a very expensive aluminum space frame. To be in this category, you would probably need to start out with an aluminum space frame or similar (carbon monocoque, etc.). There are a lot of super high end sports cars that use expensive chassis construction, but in the luxury sedan market , there are only a few.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by