Band of Outsiders' sizes are shrinking!!

[g transistor]

Originally Posted by *#..

Agreed, I only buy a shirt from them if it's on B&S and competitively priced. Go buy from Gitman Vintage, Epaulet, wolf vs goat if you want a quality, casual shirt. I own shirts in these brands, and I can say BoO is obsolete when you compare them. Their sizing is pretty consistent, unlike BoO. I haven't tried Unis or W+H shirts, but I've heard good things about both.

WvG fit is bad. The bottom button causes way too much pulling. You can see this even on their models. Before Payman sized up to a small, the pulling was even worse. I like both Gitman and Epaulet but the presence of a box pleat makes it blouse up on top, looks good from the front but from the side or back it looks marsupialed. Look at Context models. Fabric and construction between all the brands are similar. I have had WvG buttons fall off out the box and Gitman buttons are the ugliest things ever and they too fall off. The buttons Gitman uses on the white oxfords look disgusting.

Haven't tried Unis shirts but the W+H shirts I have had (flannel and oxford) were absolutely terrible in fit.

BoO does not blouse from the top and is a different fit anyways. The sides are cut higher and they are shorter, which is better for me at 5'9". Wider shoulder with slim body, too. I do agree BoO is ****** retail-wise, but almost every colorway makes it to sale.

Schneider makes the best shirts out there though, high cut armholes, slim arms (slimmer than BoO), great length, MoP buttons, and interesting fabrics.

 

[Mauro]

I am sorry my shirts don't fit you well. The fit however isn't bad at all. It's really good. Just not for you. Trying to make a shirt that can fit everyone to perfection is impossible.
I can't speak for Mike but WvG does a lot of shrinkage testing and adjusting to make sure the fit remains pretty consistent. I think BoO doesn't do that and when you are dealing with over dyes it's important. You always have to tweak the grading to compensate for your fabric. Different weaves, different treatments only means the shirt will fit different not to mention seam allowence and industry tolerance.
I have adjusted my shirts so that my before dinner is a little more forgiving and the AD has been changed, it's still a slim shirt.
Starting in spring I will change the bottom button hole so that the bottom button won't be so stressed.

As for the buttons , buttons fall of NO MATTER WHAT. I have them hand sewn and machined with doubling back twice. Sometimes it just happens. It doesn't mean the shirt construction is bad.

As for my shirts I can say the they are made to the standards of a high end custom made shirt 18 to 24 stitches per inch. Real Hand lathed MoP buttons , unless I use horn. My fabric ranges depending on the shirt. Meaning is I the hand is right and the cloth is exceptional of RTW a 60's 2- ply could be the stuff or maybe a 80's 2 -ply and higher.

The price of a shirt is the price of a shirt. if you want to pay for it is another story.
Getting shirts in the states made is expensive , period. You can use a **** muslin and the shirt will cost you over 35.00.

a lot of my customers could even fit there arms into a Schneider shirt. Does that mean their fit is bad??
Epaulet, Gitman, R&B, and many more all make good shirts but it really boils down to -
If the shirt fits YOU and if you are willing to pay for the shirt.

I also do a MTM shirt and it doesn't get more precise than that. the fabric and trims range from basic to ******* bonkers . Super 200's and all the bells and whistles however the shirt is around 450.00
While a basic oxford or 80's is 165.00
It's all a matter of what you want.

 

[g transistor]

Yo I'm not trashing wvg and saying that the fit is bad may have been too far. But the button placement is definitely messed up since it tapers so heavily towards the waist. To say boo is obsolete and referencing other brands is dumb, which was the point I was trying to prove. All the brands are different in some way and cater to different bodies, which ultimately does not justify saying that one brand is inherently better for everyone.

 

[wEstSidE]

all i was trying to say is that if you're buying ready to wear you should be taking advantage of economies of scale. if you're not then what is the point?

 

[Mauro]

Look and the after dinner shirt on me on my website. It's fitted and the same button placement. The BD shirt is skinny there's no tolerance for movement. Stress needs to be relieved somehow. The button hole needs to go sideways instead of up and down. I am trying to get that done now. It's an added expense to me

However if it improves the fit on you and you like the shirt then it's worth it right??

Westside- I agree .

 

[poly800rock]

i'm in a minority in saying that band shirts fit me the best aside from MTM. i'm short but my neck is normal. I wear these as casual as well as semi dress shirts. I have no construction issues and I wash and dry like normal clothes, I don't baby them at all. I've had issues with buttons on some of them, but every shirt i wear often does. I have about 8 boo shirts with no major problems unlike my gant shirt which literally tore apart in the washer. I'll say the only better shirts I own are united arrows shirts.

 

[*#..]

Originally Posted by Meis

You're generalizing... BoO/Gitman/Epaulet/WvG are all slim shirts, but other than that they're pretty different from each other. BoO caters to people who want a specific fit- if someone wants that fit a Gitman shirt just isn't going to cut it b/c its proportions are markedly different and won't give that same fit without tailoring the **** out of it. Also, while pricing among the shirts is different BoO always goes on sale (its pretty common for them to be available in most sizes at sale time for $130-$150) while Epaulet almost never goes on sale.
Of course they're all different - I was just telling the OP to look at other brands that sell slim-fitting shirts besides BoO that I've had experience with. Unfortunately, I don't have experience with much, so I can't say which brands are bad/good and recommend them to other people on here. If you could send me links when BoO goes on sale, and they actually have M in stock for the shirt I'd like, please do so. The vast majority of the time, its either 1: they sold out of my size or 2: I don't like the selections available in my size. I'd rather not deal with constantly checking BoO stockists all the time to jump on the sales. It's a waste of time, and I know I'm not the only guy waiting for it to happen. Epaulet never goes on sale, but retails for $130 and has a consistent cut unless otherwise specified. I know what I'm getting when I order there, but for BoO, it's a different story.

Originally Posted by g transistor

WvG fit is bad. The bottom button causes way too much pulling. You can see this even on their models. Before Payman sized up to a small, the pulling was even worse. I like both Gitman and Epaulet but the presence of a box pleat makes it blouse up on top, looks good from the front but from the side or back it looks marsupialed. Look at Context models. Fabric and construction between all the brands are similar. I have had WvG buttons fall off out the box and Gitman buttons are the ugliest things ever and they too fall off. The buttons Gitman uses on the white oxfords look disgusting. Haven't tried Unis shirts but the W+H shirts I have had (flannel and oxford) were absolutely terrible in fit. BoO does not blouse from the top and is a different fit anyways. The sides are cut higher and they are shorter, which is better for me at 5'9". Wider shoulder with slim body, too. I do agree BoO is ****** retail-wise, but almost every colorway makes it to sale. Schneider makes the best shirts out there though, high cut armholes, slim arms (slimmer than BoO), great length, MoP buttons, and interesting fabrics.
That's a bummer WvG doesn't fit you. Yeah, the buttons are pretty bad on that Gitman white oxford, I've been looking for better buttons to replace mine. I also wish the collar measurement (14.5" on a Small) was bigger. The only experience I've had with sewing was in 6th grade Home Economics, but it would take me no longer than 20 minutes to reinforce all the buttons on my shirts. Just to reiterate, buttons falling off isn't a big deal, only if they start cracking. I wouldn't say the box pleat looks marsupialed, but BoO definitely looks better from behind. Saying BoO is obsolete may be a bit harsh, but I'm glad it started this discussion.

 

[dfagdfsh]

I own a lot of expensive slim button downs and I've tried a lot more.

BoO isn't shrinking - there's always size disparity between season, fabric and cut. The batiste shirts fit wider and shorter, the oxfords fit the slimmest, etc. Also S/S offerings usually fit slimmer.

Gitman is ok. The issue is that it's not an especially slim cut shirt, so when I wear a size that fits me in the chest/waist (a M), the neck is way too small. The arms are also a little short proportionally.

Thom Browne is decent, but his shirts are more dress shirts, especially with the large length and very wide hem.

I like Epaulet a lot.

WvG is good. The cut is actually a bit slimmer in the equivalent BoO size - a L in BoO fits me well (but very slim), while a L in WvG was too tight in the shoulders and arms. My XL WvG fits well, a little looser than BoO, but still a very slim, tidy look. The only issue I have is I feel the top two buttons are placed too close together, and the collar is too shrunken - something is lsot in the proportions as the sizes scale up. Still, the fabrics are amazing and the cut isn't blousy by any means.

 

[dfagdfsh]

Also, the 'best' thing about BoO is that it's slim in the waist/chest but broad in the shoulder and big in the neck. Good for me!

W+H shouldn't be in the slim shirt conversation. Their shirt fit has never been good. It's like APC - narrow in the shoulders, but wide in the chest with almost no taper.

 

[g transistor]

Thom Browne oxfords are also really good. I was able to try some on and they were very nice in terms of fit and fabric. I like WvG and from what I had, the oxfords that I had were very nice in fabric. I just think Mauro should look into fixing the button thing on the before dinner. It's not just me that suffers from the pulling, I haven't (and I'm not saying they don't exist) seen a WvG fit that doesn't pull strangely. The taper on the shirts are just so aggressive that the button placement that low makes it pull, causing the placket to separate strangely. Gitman doesn't suffer from this since, like Teger said, it is not an aggressive, slim fitting shirt cut so likewise the AD WvG also does not. BoO remedies this by putting the last button placement much higher than where the hem is located, plus higher cut sides. Of course I realize that a little pulling naturally happens though. Personally, I just didn't like the fit because if I sized up it would eliminate a lot of the pulling, but then the top block would be too blousy.

I also agree that buttons falling off is not a detractor for shirts. I was just using WvG as an example (hand sewn) vs BoO that both have these issues. Also, I'm not ******** on any particular brand, it is good to have this discussion about shirtzzz since it often comes up. Also, Teger is right. I think the silver birch that I have is a batiste shirt, which would explain the difference.

 

[Nazareth]

I don't think most people on this site need to size up due to a shirt being too slim in the chest. I guess I can only speak for myself, but I have to squeeze my shoulders into smaller sizes unless I want 6 inches of extra fabric around my torso. I don't even see the point of buying BoO shirt's if you're an XL-XXL. Why waste the money on a slim shirts if you aren't slim. Try the Gap.

 

[*#..]

Originally Posted by g transistor

Thom Browne oxfords are also really good. I was able to try some on and they were very nice in terms of fit and fabric.

I like WvG and from what I had, the oxfords that I had were very nice in fabric. I just think Mauro should look into fixing the button thing on the before dinner. It's not just me that suffers from the pulling, I haven't (and I'm not saying they don't exist) seen a WvG fit that doesn't pull strangely. The taper on the shirts are just so aggressive that the button placement that low makes it pull, causing the placket to separate strangely. Gitman doesn't suffer from this since, like Teger said, it is not an aggressive, slim fitting shirt cut so likewise the AD WvG also does not. BoO remedies this by putting the last button placement much higher than where the hem is located, plus higher cut sides.

Of course I realize that a little pulling naturally happens though. Personally, I just didn't like the fit because if I sized up it would eliminate a lot of the pulling, but then the top block would be too blousy.

I also agree that buttons falling off is not a detractor for shirts. I was just using WvG as an example (hand sewn) vs BoO that both have these issues. Also, I'm not ******** on any particular brand, it is good to have this discussion about shirtzzz since it often comes up.

Also, Teger is right. I think the silver birch that I have is a batiste shirt, which would explain the difference.

I didn't think you were ******** on any brand - I think a lot of your concerns regarding fit are correct. I forgot to mention this, but you're right about the pulling at the bottom of WvG Before Dinner shirts. It does a bit on mine, but not as bad as that 1st WvG pic you posted. The button placement on the 1st one you posted has some really bad pulling, hopefully that guy sees it.

I didn't think about it before, but Teger's probably right. If anyone else has a bunch of BoO shirts from varying seasons/years to check this, that would be great.

 

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Nazareth

I don't think most people on this site need to size up due to a shirt being too slim in the chest. I guess I can only speak for myself, but I have to squeeze my shoulders into smaller sizes unless I want 6 inches of extra fabric around my torso. I don't even see the point of buying BoO shirt's if you're an XL-XXL. Why waste the money on a slim shirts if you aren't slim. Try the Gap.

^Another marsupialed comment. Comparing Gap to BoO. You guys kill me.

 

[dfagdfsh]

It varies a lot. IME flannels fit a little looser, batiste are the loosets, and the oxfords starting getting really slim maybe 2 seasons ago. You also see a difference in sizing between oxford colors - white is always the slimmest for some reason. The 'slimmest' BoO shirt is probably the short sleeve oxfords. I'd honestly have to wear like an XXL, simply because of the length. Very, very cropped.

Also BoO in XL isn't that big. I vary between a L and an XL based on the cut, fabric, season and desired fit. Right now a BoO L is very slim on me (not too slim, maybe a little too short), and I find Gap/J Crew Ms kind of big, especially at the waist.

 

[dfagdfsh]

Also Thom Browne shirts aren't really casual shirts. The length + hem width really kind of precludes wearing them untucked. I have a flannel that I need to get shortened, and a dress shirt I'm probably going to sell. FWIW, I have to go up to a 4 in TB for the shoulder/neck, and its a nice slim/relaxed fit