Archibald London: true craftsmanship, no middlemen, Official Vendor Thread

[ArchibaldRoh]

Hi All,

I hope you are all well.

I wanted to share something with you all and hopefully get some advice about a problem we seem to be having.
So, a little while ago we launched a small collection of shirts made in collaboration with a boutique and fairly celebrated shirtmaker in Italy, Gallia. Now we have put solving this problem on ice for a little bit because it seems somewhere in the purchasing journey we are not quite making it clear just how special these shirts are so it really requires someone who knows us well to go ahead and give it a shot and then pretty much it carries on.

So I received today some shirts I ordered earlier in January and it brought me back to this topic. I have had shirts from pretty much all the best luxury brands, the challenger start-ups (never quite close), Savile row tailors and some of my favourite actually made in Japan but nothing I have owned thus far is quite like the Gallia article. So when we combine that with the pricing advantage of the Archibald model we really should be taking this world by storm with these.. so I figured we need to do something about this and there is something innately missing. We know ultimately quality and craft are the major differentiators here as you have brands of all levels purchasing the best of cloths, however there is an art to putting together and normally that costs a lot, so given the difference is tangible and something one only understands when felt there is a hurdle to overcome.

We are spending some time this month developing a much fuller shirting collection but I really wanted to ask you all for some advice, especially as more of you are learning about Archibald quite intimately with our other products!

This is the link to the current shirting collection:
https://www.archibaldlondon.com/us/...l":"tailored-dress-shirts","title":"Shirts"}]

and the page about Gallia: https://www.archibaldlondon.com/us/...era-veneta/the-tailored-dress-shirts-workshop

And of course, we would never ask for something for nothing... anyone engaging will receive a special link to a MTO 200s Cotton Poplin Shirt, fully customizable at the Naked price. This not only helps us get pointers for the online experience and the way these are positioned but also ensures that there is an opportunity for all of you receive the shirt and experience that they are that special.

Looking forward to hearing all your thoughts!

Best,

R

 

[dhoff10]

Hi All,

I hope you are all well.

I wanted to share something with you all and hopefully get some advice about a problem we seem to be having.
So, a little while ago we launched a small collection of shirts made in collaboration with a boutique and fairly celebrated shirtmaker in Italy, Gallia. Now we have put solving this problem on ice for a little bit because it seems somewhere in the purchasing journey we are not quite making it clear just how special these shirts are so it really requires someone who knows us well to go ahead and give it a shot and then pretty much it carries on.

So I received today some shirts I ordered earlier in January and it brought me back to this topic. I have had shirts from pretty much all the best luxury brands, the challenger start-ups (never quite close), Savile row tailors and some of my favourite actually made in Japan but nothing I have owned thus far is quite like the Gallia article. So when we combine that with the pricing advantage of the Archibald model we really should be taking this world by storm with these.. so I figured we need to do something about this and there is something innately missing. We know ultimately quality and craft are the major differentiators here as you have brands of all levels purchasing the best of cloths, however there is an art to putting together and normally that costs a lot, so given the difference is tangible and something one only understands when felt there is a hurdle to overcome.

We are spending some time this month developing a much fuller shirting collection but I really wanted to ask you all for some advice, especially as more of you are learning about Archibald quite intimately with our other products!

This is the link to the current shirting collection:
https://www.archibaldlondon.com/us/collection?tags=[{"sortOrder":0,"categoryUrl":"tailored-dress-shirts","title":"Shirts"}]

and the page about Gallia: https://www.archibaldlondon.com/us/...era-veneta/the-tailored-dress-shirts-workshop

And of course, we would never ask for something for nothing... anyone engaging will receive a special link to a MTO 200s Cotton Poplin Shirt, fully customizable at the Naked price. This not only helps us get pointers for the online experience and the way these are positioned but also ensures that there is an opportunity for all of you receive the shirt and experience that they are that special.

Looking forward to hearing all your thoughts!

Best,

R

I'll give my feedback for what it's worth. When looking for a shirt make there are 2 things I'm looking for: the ability to input my measurements and have them matched with tight margins; transparency to the fabric brand. Not that I know every shirting mill out there but there are some established names, and if a cloth is among the best I expect the mill it came from would have an established brand. If a shirtmaker doesn't tell me where the cloth came from I assume it has something to hide, or is targeting a very different type of consumer. From your page it looks like Gallia is not a mill but buys cloths from local mills. The cloth may be great, but I don't have much to go by. Is the 200s line from DJA? probably not Riva. So it's questions like that. Now I know from shoes, scarves, etc that Archibald only sources the best so that helps, but I would still prefer to know the fabric brand and be able to choose from a range of cloths within them.

It never occurred to me to care where the cloth was turned into a shirt as long as they hit the measurements, assuming this part is mostly commoditized, but I would definitely be open to learning the value of differentiation here.

For sizing, I suspect in 10 years there will be no sizes in luxury wear. EVERYTHING will be MTM, and many things will be MTO if not full bespoke. There are already a handful of online shirtmakers that will cut fabric based on your measurements and let you choose from a range of fabrics based on the brand. Execution is spot on.

hope this helps. I will always give Archibald the benefit of the doubt based on my experiences, but with shirts transparency goes in a couple of different dimensions.

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

I'll give my feedback for what it's worth. When looking for a shirt make there are 2 things I'm looking for: the ability to input my measurements and have them matched with tight margins; transparency to the fabric brand. Not that I know every shirting mill out there but there are some established names, and if a cloth is among the best I expect the mill it came from would have an established brand. If a shirtmaker doesn't tell me where the cloth came from I assume it has something to hide, or is targeting a very different type of consumer. From your page it looks like Gallia is not a mill but buys cloths from local mills. The cloth may be great, but I don't have much to go by. Is the 200s line from DJA? probably not Riva. So it's questions like that. Now I know from shoes, scarves, etc that Archibald only sources the best so that helps, but I would still prefer to know the fabric brand and be able to choose from a range of cloths within them.

It never occurred to me to care where the cloth was turned into a shirt as long as they hit the measurements, assuming this part is mostly commoditized, but I would definitely be open to learning the value of differentiation here.

For sizing, I suspect in 10 years there will be no sizes in luxury wear. EVERYTHING will be MTM, and many things will be MTO if not full bespoke. There are already a handful of online shirtmakers that will cut fabric based on your measurements and let you choose from a range of fabrics based on the brand. Execution is spot on.

hope this helps. I will always give Archibald the benefit of the doubt based on my experiences, but with shirts transparency goes in a couple of different dimensions.

Thanks @dhoff10 that is an immense help! Points noted and you are right.

Yes execution as you mentioned is key and there is much to be said about the cloth, I figured when we first did it, we saw that a lot of brands from every level already purchase from the best mills etc... so it is almost level when it comes to that so we downplayed the fabric as such and tried to put an emphasis on the difference when the shirt is made by a master shirtmaker be it custom MTO or RTW MTO. The only way I can describe it as one experiences when putting on a machine-made suit vs hand-made, it might be the same thing but it feels, falls and the details make it totally different. I can order the same shirt from Gallia and from let's say the best of the disruptors and there is a clear, clear difference in wear.

 

[Xune]

I'm pretty much only using MTM to get the fit correct and my standard go-to look, which is a slim fit, one-piece collar (I use maker's default parameters because I like them), 1 button rounded cuff.
The other advantage is fabric selection. I usually opt for more casual in texture, softer fabrics. That means oxfords in boring colours or stripes in boring colour on white, preferably in oxford or twill weave. Think light blue, lighter blue, slightly less light blue, white, some blue stripes on white, sometimes green check. What follows - poplin from your website probably would not storm my wardrobe and hold it hostage, if it's plain poplin Then again, I don't need to wear myself formally; tailored, casual style is still more than enough in my daily life.
I don't care that much for exact fabric maker's name, as long as I know (or believe, basing on trust for shop's descriptions and/or swatches) it's from established mill (doesn't have to be DJA/Riva/insert your fav. premium mill, my most worn shirt has fabric from Soktas which is performing outstandingly) and the actual fabric will be pleasant to wear, easy to iron and won't fall apart from couple of cold washes in the machine. Would not order fabric "from a mill in China".

So, tl;dr my perfect shirt has some very specific styling options, soft and comfy casual fabric from at least reasonably good source and is ordered to fit my exact measurements.

 

[tropics]

i'm no shirt expert... so i latch on to SF hype. if i hear a lot of chatter about a maker or brand i will try one out to see how it fits with me, then take it from there. same with most things i suppose.

 

[hrv123]

I'm always looking for new shirting options as I have difficulty fitting OTR. Personally I've been most deterred by the styling. There are limited fabric options and the collars leave a lot to be desired. Aside from fit, the most important aspect of a dress shirt IMO is the collar. I find the collars too small and unflattering.

Would love to try a shirt as I've been impressed with the other products I've tried, but IMO the styling needs work.

 

[EgoCamisas]

I'm always looking for new shirting options as I have difficulty fitting OTR. Personally I've been most deterred by the styling. There are limited fabric options and the collars leave a lot to be desired. Aside from fit, the most important aspect of a dress shirt IMO is the collar. I find the collars too small and unflattering.

Would love to try a shirt as I've been impressed with the other products I've tried, but IMO the styling needs work.

I agree. Maybe I'm too traditional, but I love having French cuffs and have not had good experiences with convertible ones, and this is also an option that is not offered.

Since there is an option to make it custom and input your measurements, maybe some MTO option such as the one designed for the sneakers can be added, where the fabric, collar and cuff type are chosen, together with the fit and size with your own measurements.

I don't know, I do believe they must be high quality but that alone is not enough, even more so if I wouldn't know your products. Knowing where the fabrics come from would help, true, but the styling is what kills it for me. Unlike a pair of shoes, a shirt to me is something more expendable and maybe I'm too poor, but if I'm gonna spend around 200€ on a shirt which may be going to the trash if I spill some wine on it I'd at least want it to have the style I look for. Just my 2 cents

 

[applegreen]

I'm probably close to your target demographic (mid-30s, professional, income) but I guess nice shirts have never been a thing I've really gotten into. When I was in school and then through residency and such, I didn't have the income for well made clothing, and in general the higher end stuff available at malls near me did not fit well. At 5'8" and 140lbs I'm not a big guy and even the slimmest cuts of shirts still tended to billow a bit at my waist, so I've stuck with Uniqlo and cheaply made but usually better fitting shirts I got in Korea from way back when. Shoes are worth the investment for me since I wear them multiple times a week, but shirts haven't hitten the value point for me, as I can generally wear it once a week, often have to dry clean them which adds further hassle. Your shirts certainly have great blurbs under them but at the end of the day, it's a tough sell to somehow visually convey that these shirts are more special than essentially any other standard white button up. I honestly don't know how that could be done better; maybe showing the styling on different body shapes with the different cuts to make ti clearer how they fit?

 

[mux8]

I echo all the comments already made here. It's great to have competitors and I welcome it. Here's the thing at $150+ it's quite hard to convince average people to buy a MTM shirt even those that can afford it. For one we cannot "try" or order a sample of the shirt fabric from your website. I'm hesitant to purchase a shirt at this cost that I'll wear a handful of times a month unless I have some guarantees. Not to mention weight fluctuations that can make the shirt outdated or the occasional spill which can stain a shirt forever. This is not like a shoe that can last 2-4 years no problem.

I personally think proper cloth has a very nice system for MTM shirts, at the cheapest I can get a decent MTM shirt (even if it's not made in italy) for 80-100$. Plus I can order fabric samples and they have a "perfect fit guarantee", which is paramount for me. If I'm spending a lot of money on a shirt I want to ensure fit. S&M also has a good price to quality ratio, albeit, not as polished as the proper cloth ordering system. So I think the price and the system currently setup is not very user friendly for Archibald. I want a perfect fit guarantee, ability to order fabric samples, photos of model wearing the shirts.

 

[Spideysense]

Here’s my 2 (Euro)cents.

Due to my extraterrestrial long arms, I am quite limited in OTR shirts. Nowadays, I use a couple of MTM makers that do a decent job and offer a more or less wide array of styling options and fabrics.

I’ve looked at the Archibald shirt offer and was initially interested in giving it a try, but the following things stopped me from pulling the trigger:
- price: I agree that at this price point, one has to be fairly sure that the shirt is going to fit well. No amount of beautiful handwork can substitute a good fit. Many MTM makers offer some sort of a fit guarantee, either by remaking the shirt if the fit isn’t right or providing cheaper trial options. In any case, MTM is usually a process that requires a few iterations to get it right.
- styling: I like a collar with a decent roll and longer collar points (e.g. Propercloth’s Roma Spread or Shirtonomy’s High Spread) and that does not seem to be the case with the Archibald offer. Even the button-down is more of a sporty button-down. More information on the collars (measurements) would be welcome, too.
- fabric: not much information about the origin (mill), feel, weight etc.
- construction: not much information on that either, regarding shoulders, collar fused or not, lining used, gussets, yoke etc.

All in all, I feel that at this price point, I would need more information and more styling options (particularly collar-wise) to take the plunge.

 

[othertravel]

@ArchibaldRoh echoing the points above, these are the two main criteria for me when ordering a shirt:

1. Transparency about the mill and fabric quality.

2. Very tight margins on the measurements provided by the customer.

I'm very excited about your projects. Keep them coming!

 

[Friend]

@ArchibaldRoh I had some longer thoughts that I DMed you directly. Just mentioning it here in case you have notifications for messages disabled.

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

@ArchibaldRoh I had some longer thoughts that I DMed you directly. Just mentioning it here in case you have notifications for messages disabled.

I saw them just on the way back home, I wanted to reply in a way to do it justice. Cannot thank you enough. Will be responding in full.

 

[Tektura]

At the end there is always one thing I missing when I ordering a shirt. I want to choose the sleeve length, in combination with body fit and collar size I would be quite happy and dont need a mtm in most cases. That would be a missing piece for quality shirts. If you have an eye on sleeve length there is only CT Shirts and beside that nothing.

Best

Michael

 

[docc]

Sleeve length is a killer...most RTW shirts have way too long sleeves for my neck size. The cloth would definitely have to be from a reputable mill, and not made in China or somewhere where quality control is dubious. Not just the mill, but the source of organic cotton also, given how eco-conscious people are nowadays. But fit is still king!
Regarding fit, probably better to have measurements as well as style (slim fitted in trunk and sleeves, standard, relaxed) options for ppl with same measurements may want different style. Really need exacting measurements implemented properly...I've worn bespoke shirts and nothing like personalized pattern but I'm sure a good MTM can approach the fit if executed correctly. Need video guide on how to take proper measurements.
Collar size, collar style and width, shoulder width, chest circumference, bicep circumference, sleeve length, wrist circumference (possibly more on the side one wears a watch?), cuff style, number of cuff buttons, waist size, shirt length (if casual shorter untucked or formal longer to tuck). And of course a high armhole, high stitch density, mother of pearl buttons, preshrunk fabric, wrist placket with no button.