Ann D, Cloak, Raf Simons ... I just don't get it

[blank]

Brian,

Perhaps I've found the dilemma here: that fit really suits your style, so kudos! Might not be mine but that doesn't mean it's not someone elses.

But I'll never get into goth-ninja: vests, boots, tiny jackets over dress-length shirts...

And yes, the WAYWN is great, but so is the site. Mature discourse about a great subject.

 

[minya]

Originally Posted by blank

Am I the only one who doesn’t understand the appeal of some designers like Ann D, Raf Simons, Rick Owens, Cloak and the like? Much of this stuff strikes me as dungeony, dark, quite pessimistic and unwearable. Not only are the pieces extremely expensive, but I just don’t see the appeal or the function. I think that designers like Rag & Bone, Trovata, APC and Acne create pieces that are modern but stylish, wearable, and not too forced. I feel like I could throw on a YMC piece and head out, but not so much when I look at things by Cloak. The other labels just seem so … dark. Those of you who like labels like Ann D, Raf, etc. – what’s the motivation? I’m not trying to condescend, I’m just curious. What draws you to such designers?
In much the same way, I feel that most Rag & Bone (save their FW07 stuff, which I like quite a bit), Trovata especially, APC, and You Must Create's designs are uninteresting and not worth wearing. I listened to goth/industrial music growing up. I love "Goth" in the capital-G-Victorian-morbidity-doom-gloom-absinthe-Oscar Wilde sense, not the Rozz-Robert-The Crow-Hot Topic-14 y/o's at the mall sense. Raf Simons, Cloak, Ann Demeulemeester, Carpe Diem, Helmut Lang all speak directly to my sense of aesthetics, design, and fashion, and those brands create the kind of clothes that I dreamed about growing up. I really, really love them, because I feel at home in them. For me, personally, fashion and clothing are intimately interrelated with the music I listen to, and they're tied together. Of course, I don't dress like a "goth ninja" every day. I wear lots of t-shirts, jeans, and sneakers. It's obviously a different aesthetic than what you're interested in, but there's definitely people out there who appreciate it. It's fairly simple.

 

[j]

Isn't Cloak done? Or did I miss something? I thought he quit.

 

[Fuuma]

Demeulemeester clothes are romantic, looked lived-in and project an air of nonchalance, if Rimbaud was alive today I'm sure he would wear her pieces so what's not to like?

Raf Simons plays with fabric and volume like no other and is, at his best, almost entirely non-referential, it's like you've settled into a time-machine and can now bring back the clothes of the future. By the way he's not very dark/macabre/etc so I'm kinda puzzled that you've associated him with Demeulemeester, Owens and Cloak who have a sort of goth-rock filiation, even though they're nothing alike in their execution.

Rick Owens does his thing time after time, he's very reliable (aside from his sizing which is ), the man provides in your face rock'n'roll, makes you feel like a badass. That's for people for whom the label works though; it personally makes me look like I borrowed my 8 feet tall brother's heavy-metal uniform.

Cloak: Perfect distillation of Victorian and military influences, with quite peculiar detailing. One of the coolest provider of outerwear out there.

Rag&Bone, APC and Trovata are more utilitarian and workwear/streetwear influenced. I would classify them as everyday clothes for a more casual wearer that could potentially use the "dark" labels as accent pieces, don't you agree? That's coming from someone who really enjoys APC and did so before joining here and the other online fashion forums (full disclosure=got my raw NS after being in SF, I'd say LAGuy has been instrumental in helping me understand jeans and what I liked but couldn't really put my finger on). I call dibs on ACNE though; have a pair that I bought in 99 or 2000.

Another important thing to keep in mind is that designers that present fashion shows (like those "dark" designers you're puzzled about and unlike those that you said you like) bring forward a self-contained idea of how their garment should be worn, but that's because they want to present the underlying concepts behind their current collection in a unified manner. It's not a user manual and when the pieces get to the store, they normally have more colour choices and don't come with a tag that prohibit you from mix and matching with other designers to integrate them into your own style that could be anything but the aforementioned "goth-ninja" thing.

Additionally, the designers being discussed are, evidently, less accessible but aren't a good portion of the truly rewarding music, books, movies, theatre, etc the same? Taste is something you cultivate and, while fashion is design and not art (for me design= art with an extrinsic purpose) I do think some of the same principles apply. I don't know if you've had much access to the designers being discussed and have tried and looked at a lot of design by them and others but, while they may not be your cup of tea, the quality of what they put forward should speak in and out of itself. I certainly would not wear an Aider Hackermann dress (for what is, I hope, an obvious reason) but can appreciate what he put forward in his last collection, I'm sure you can approach the work in a similar manner, you might even end up getting a piece or two (hopefully not an Hackermann dress, unless that's your thing).

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by j

Isn't Cloak done? Or did I miss something? I thought he quit.

You're correct. Robert Geller (formerly of Cloak) did release a men collection though. I'm sure Prokhov will surface again in a way or another.

 

[LabelKing]

I like these labels worn with other esoteric labels like out-there Comme des Garçons and maybe something vintage. These labels also make more "formal" clothing than what you mention which tends to be more casual in a conventional sense.

Besides, one shouldn't wear head-to-toe Cloak. It's as pathetic as wearing head-to-toe Gucci--or A&F.

 

[Brian SD]

Very nice post Fuuma.. bums me out you don't post round these parts these days. I know you kids like to frequent the 'other place' where goth-ninja's run rampant.

 

[jet]

Yep Fuuma's my boy, wish he would spend more time here as this is home.

 

[ratboycom]

Too much goth ninja stuff is a bad thing but a little looks good

This **** is kina cool, maybe its because she reminds me of my girlfriend, but the glasses are too much

I guess I kina always admired the 100 layers look because I cant layer my outfits for ****

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by Brian SD

Very nice post Fuuma.. bums me out you don't post round these parts these days. I know you kids like to frequent the 'other place' where goth-ninja's run rampant.

Hahahaha, well I post here when I've got something to say, I try to spend at least 30min/day reading styleforum/superfuture/stylezeigeist/thefashionspot but since there can be a large number of posts I often miss 1-2 sites or skip the day entirely. I must say the current even forum is a nice way to destroy my fate in humanity.

My favorite thread in the forum right now is WAYWT, it developped quite nicely.

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by ratboycom

Too much goth ninja stuff is a bad thing but a little looks good

This **** is kina cool, maybe its because she reminds me of my girlfriend, but the glasses are too much

I guess I kina always admired the 100 layers look because I cant layer my outfits for ****

I went to see TV on the radio last saturday, you would have loved the crowd. Anglo hipsters are now a global phenomenon, they look very much alike in most cities I visit. I guess, like us, Al Gore's invention dresses them.

 

[ratboycom]

at first I couldnt think of what Al Gore invented, I was thinking of Man-Bear-Pig, but then I realized you were talking about the internets

Actually the **** I like is not so much hipster look but much much wilder,like some of the styles that came out of Harajuku (I would never wear it but it sure looks cool and wild) which might gain me some flack on these boards. I used to be a raver, so my wild dress years are behind me.

 

[sygyzy]

I agree that I don't really understand the whole skinny pale goth punk ninja look. I am not surprised that some here like it ... they have the body for it. I also think it's much more popular at SuFu where every other picture is someone rocking Ann D, Cloak, etc and sitting in a strange and very (now) unoriginal post. You know what I'm talking about. Look at haptronic's posts.

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by sygyzy

I agree that I don't really understand the whole skinny pale goth punk ninja look. I am not surprised that some here like it ... they have the body for it. I also think it's much more popular at SuFu where every other picture is someone rocking Ann D, Cloak, etc and sitting in a strange and very (now) unoriginal post. You know what I'm talking about. Look at haptronic's posts.

You must be posting on another superfuture (superfure prime?) because Ann D, Cloak and similar brands pop up from time to time but they aren't in any way common. As for Haptronic; you may not like his poses but he doesn't wear the aforementionned brands either so what has he got to do with anything related to this thread?

By the way, while I do think I understood what you guys meant, can someone define EXACTLY what they mean by goth-ninja and why it's a bad thing?

April77: I tried on the jacket Brian has, it looks cool and the detachable collar is a nice touch. I don't see them having great success though as they're only aiming at one body type (very slim dudes). However the rock'n'roll/rockabilly touch keeps things interesting so I'll continue watching their stuff.

 

[Brian SD]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

You must be posting on another superfuture (superfure prime?) because Ann D, Cloak and similar brands pop up from time to time but they aren't in any way common. As for Haptronic; you may not like his poses but he doesn't wear the aforementionned brands either so what has he got to do with anything related to this thread?

By the way, while I do think I understood what you guys meant, can someone define EXACTLY what they mean by goth-ninja and why it's a bad thing?

April77: I tried on the jacket Brian has, it looks cool and the detachable collar is a nice touch. I don't see them having great success though as they're only aiming at one body type (very slim dudes). However the rock'n'roll/rockabilly touch keeps things interesting so I'll continue watching their stuff.

True. Of course I think they're gonna blow up, because their medium is a perfect fit on me.

I don't want to post 'bad examples' of the goth-ninja look. I try my best to not badmouth people (at least not directly, haha). Besides, the one guy who was a truly shining example has removed all his pictures.

Here is a good example of dark **** being done so right. Different shades of greys and blacks, and a nice scarf for good measure (this is DarkAnimal, I wish it was me):