Ambrosi Napoli

[ctp120]

Did I read once that Ambrosi made pants for Formosa?

 

[ctp120]



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Here is a photo of an Ambrosi pant (the grey twill) and NSM (off white cashmere cotton). Both are very nice pants. The NSM was a better pant than any similar RTW pant that I could find around the Bay Area at Neiman Marcus, Wilkes Bashford, etc. It was also a better price than the well known brands at those stores. Some of my pants with NSM have varied. I believe that was during the time they were growing and changing tailors. The fit on NSM is good and the quality is excellent but not quite shaped the way Ambrosi does it. I believe there is a benefit to Ambrosi's focus on pants and his approach to fit. To me, the Ambrosi pants look and feel a bit more custom.

Pics seem to show two nice pairs of pants, but since fit is what seems to set Ambrosi apart for you, it would be interesting to see a fit comparison form you, Cantabrigian, Manton, or anyone else who's worn both.

 

[dieworkwear]

How the rest of this thread will go:

::StyFo User posts pics of both pants worn::

::StyFo Detractors say the fits look to be about the same::

::StyFo User says that it's just the pictures and insists that the Ambrosis look better in real life::

::StyFo Member Marcolondra says however they look, they're still not as good as Mola's, who charges 1/3 of the price if you just fly all the way to Naples::

::Long Unseen StyFo Member shows up out of nowhere, to share his disgruntled experience with Ambrosi three years ago::

::Everyone thumbs of sympathy::

::StyFo members who were never going to buy from Ambrosi reiterate that they're definitely not going to buy from him now::

::Thread dies down until next trunk show, at which point someone innocently posts and another round of arguments ensues::

 

[TheFoo]

Ambrosi "style" really doesn't have anything to do with the amount of taper. If you want less taper, they can give you less taper.

What I particularly like about my Ambrosi trousers is the way they are shaped to match the curve of my legs, both front and back. Even really great tailors don't necessarily deliver pants like that. They are usually a straight up-and-down affair, which may fit perfectly, but lack such finesse.

 

[jrd617]

This is interesting

PSG, could you do a side by side showing this on Ambrosi vs NSM?

What I particularly like about my Ambrosi trousers is the way they are shaped to match the curve of my legs, both front and back. Even really great tailors don't necessarily deliver pants like that. They are usually a straight up-and-down affair.

 

[ctp120]

Is it even noticeable in pictures, or something the wearer feels but which doesn't translate well visually?

Frankly, I've thought almost every pic of Ambrosi pants I've seen looked pretty damn good, though the same could be said for several others' pants too. I'd be unlikely to use him myself simply because of the sour past experiences so many have reported on the forums, but add to that his own ridiculous posts attacking Foo and I'm even less inclined to consider it. All that said, I wouldn't for a second shame Derek or any one else for choosing to do so, especially if they know the history and have made their own decision.

 

[dieworkwear]

I have a picture somewhere of the curve Foo is talking about, but I can't find it at the moment.

I'm not a tailor, but my guess is that they help you achieve a slim leg but also a nice drape. My NSM and Steed trousers are both cut fairly straight up and down, but my Steeds drape better. I've often wondered if this is because they're a little fuller in the upper thigh, but I don't know. NSM has a slimmer leg that I prefer, but the back doesn't drape as clean as Steed's.

Most people stand with their hips slightly forward and their knees locked, so your natural position is often a bit more like an S-curve rather than a straight up and down I. I read on a tailoring forum once that this has become more true as people are more sedentary. Supposedly, people who do more physical work aren't as likely to stand like this, but I don't know if that's actually so.

 

[poorsod]



Ambrosi "style" really doesn't have anything to do with the amount of taper. If you want less taper, they can give you less taper.

What I particularly like about my Ambrosi trousers is the way they are shaped to match the curve of my legs, both front and back. Even really great tailors don't necessarily deliver pants like that. They are usually a straight up-and-down affair, which may fit perfectly, but lack such finesse.

I believe the shape was made via ironwork. Does the shape remain after dry cleaning? Any experience with linen or cotton where the material can't be shaped by iron?

I have a picture somewhere of the curve Foo is talking about, but I can't find it at the moment.

http://ambrosi-napoli.tumblr.com/post/42853917345/prototype-a-homage-to-my-great-grandfather

 

[Despos]

Yes, shaping is done with an iron. On the back part the thigh/crotch area is shrunk in along the crease and the calf below the knee is stretched along the side seam creating an inward shaped curve at the thigh and an outward directed curve over the calf. The front is stretched slightly over the thigh along the crease and the front crease is shrunk in from knee to hem and the sides of the front below the knee are stretched. The front is stretched where the back is shrunk on the thigh and the front shrunk where the back is stretched below the knee. The front part and back part fit together and compliment each other.The shaping follows the natural line of the leg. Ambrosi does this on a vacuum table that helps set the effect and it holds a bit longer. From wear and movement your body stresses the trouser in the opposite way the trouser is shaped. The back of the thigh stretches when you sit and the knee stretches from bending of the knee. Pressing can reshape the leg and bring it back to the original shape if you spend the time and effort to do so. Haven't seen any dry cleaner who knows to do this.

It's unfair to compare an NSM cotton trouser and an Ambrosi flannel trouser. Apples and oranges. Cotton will not shape like wool. Cotton is vulgar by comparison to a supple woolen.

 

[ctp120]

Thanks for commenting, Chris. This is helpful analysis.


*Have to admit, though--at a certain point I got lost and began to read what's below to the tune of "the ankle bone's connected to the . . . leg bone; the leg bone's connected to the . . ."

The front is stretched slightly over the thigh along the crease and the front crease is shrunk in from knee to hem and the sides of the front below the knee are stretched. The front is stretched where the back is shrunk on the thigh and the front shrunk where the back is stretched below the knee. The front part and back part fit together and compliment each other.The shaping follows the natural line of the leg.

 

[Despos]

That's cute.
Knew a New York tailor who could create so much shape in the leg with a hand iron and then he would leave the trousers locked down in a pressing machine overnight to set the shape. It was really beautiful, amazing work. You won't see that level of work around anymore.

 

[marcodalondra]

Thanks dieworkwear.

No need to repeat myself, but the argument is that he still charges 1/3 in Naples himself...

In any case, all my bespoke trousers have that shaping, "la forma S" they called it in the Mola/Cerrato family. For me, what I like most in my pants is the way the hug my hips/shaped around the back: I am wearing suit/classic trousers but I feel as comfortable as I would be wearing lounge pants/trousers.

IMO the benefit is in working directly with the trousermaker some time, or at least having him present at the first fitting (that is what happened with Volpe and Cerrato); but as I said, when ordering trousers through your tailor he will likely mark the fitting he wants to achieve (taking into account client preferences) and thus trousers made by the same trousermaker for two different tailor will look most likely quite different

 

[ctp120]

If the iron shaping is what's primarily responsible for this effect, I wonder if a reasonably well fitting pair of RTW pants could be similarly transformed by a capable ironer/presser? I realize the kind of ironing/pressing we're talking about is a special skill. Chris noted that he's never found a dry cleaner capable of it. I guess part of the question I'm asking is whether the cut one begins with is a crucial part of the formula to get the right end product (thus necessitating bespoke-level precision of cut), or if most wool or cashmere cloth has within it broad enough marginal capacities for shrink/stretch to yield a range wide enough for accommodating effective shaping of even good-but-not-great cuts of the trouser based on the wearer's physique. Hope this makes sense.

 

[Despos]

It is really best to do all the shaping before sewing the leg together.

The areas that require shrinking the cloth can be done with an iron post construction but the areas that are stretched are best done and more effective if done pre construction. You don't want to stretch a sewn seam and break the thread.

I think this has been discussed and the iron work photographed by jefferyd, check the tailors tutorial thread

 

[poorsod]



It is really best to do all the shaping before sewing the leg together.

The areas that require shrinking the cloth can be done with an iron post construction but the areas that are stretched are best done and more effective if done pre construction. You don't want to stretch a sewn seam and break the thread.

I think this has been discussed and the iron work photographed by jefferyd, check the tailors tutorial thread

Yes. Jefferyd wrote about it on his blog.

http://tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/2009/09/cutting-trousers-cultural-divide.html?m=0