Aime Leon Dore - Official Thread

[norsefanboi]

Yes because can you imagine how expensive the cost would be now with Japanese cotton? And RiRi hardware which has likely gone up in price too?
Then you add up all the other usual expenses like shoots and modeling...did you expect that Japanese cotton with MTO in NYC and RiRi hardware to only be like $320 now?

Have you followed the prices in cotton, let alone Japanese cotton?

i think you are missing his point lol. the bomber would be 600+ now

 

[IChen]

i think you are missing his point lol. the bomber would be 600+ now

Yes and it's not really just in a 5 year span, though popularity does go into that, but also just the component price increases in the past 2 years.

 

[bry2000]

I can see why Drake's is a good match and collab partner with ALD since similar price discussion/wars/debates happen routinely on the Drake's thread.

 

[norsefanboi]

I can see why Drake's is a good match and collab partner with ALD since similar price discussion/wars/debates happen routinely on the Drake's thread.

every brand tbh

 

[winston86dit]

That’s not the issue. It’s natural for prices to increase when everything else is increasing. The issue is how rapidly the prices have increased.
My first piece from ALD was the 16 lightweight bomber. It was $290 and made with Japanese cotton, made to order in NYC, and had RiRi hardware. Browsing the site now, $295 gets you a made in China fleece overshirt with plastic snap buttons. That’s insane in a 5ish year span.

But what makes that insane, if people pay for it and are happy with it? Not to mention you're not aware of the actual material and trim pricing (unless I missed something..).
Just because you have a different set of values associated with what makes a well made, accurately costed garment, doesn't mean that's actually the truth. This topic comes up a lot in various threads (bry is exactly right on the Drake's thread comparison) with little to no facts for the cost of manufacturing, let alone cost comparisons by year. Then, like someone said above, you factor in marketing (photo shoots, collabs, press, giveaways, etc), factor in head count, real estate, and then of course you want everyone to be making a living wage that works for you....the list goes on. ALD is bigger now, it makes complete sense their prices are going up alongside the business. Having been in the fashion business now for 17 years, it's the way it has always worked. Things evolve. That fabric you once were able to afford at $5.00 a yard is now $8.00. The Japanese cotton you once paid a premium for is comparable in a lot of ways to cotton from other countries and regions. There are just so many factors that go into the making and selling of a product, it's amazing some brands are even able to keep relatively consistent pricing.

I say, good for them. They've found a winning formula and while their clothing doesn't necessarily resonate with me, it's definitely well done.

 

[nonnative]

But what makes that insane, if people pay for it and are happy with it? Not to mention you're not aware of the actual material and trim pricing (unless I missed something..).
Just because you have a different set of values associated with what makes a well made, accurately costed garment, doesn't mean that's actually the truth. This topic comes up a lot in various threads (bry is exactly right on the Drake's thread comparison) with little to no facts for the cost of manufacturing, let alone cost comparisons by year. Then, like someone said above, you factor in marketing (photo shoots, collabs, press, giveaways, etc), factor in head count, real estate, and then of course you want everyone to be making a living wage that works for you....the list goes on. ALD is bigger now, it makes complete sense their prices are going up alongside the business. Having been in the fashion business now for 17 years, it's the way it has always worked. Things evolve. That fabric you once were able to afford at $5.00 a yard is now $8.00. The Japanese cotton you once paid a premium for is comparable in a lot of ways to cotton from other countries and regions. There are just so many factors that go into the making and selling of a product, it's amazing some brands are even able to keep relatively consistent pricing.

I say, good for them. They've found a winning formula and while their clothing doesn't necessarily resonate with me, it's definitely well done.

First, you're right. Goods are worth what people will pay for them and ALD is certainly doing well so it seems they've found the right formula and that is good for them. I've bought their stuff consistently since 2016 and although I've slowed down buying from them, I always pick up a few pieces each season because I like their aesthetic and will probably continue to do so.

But all of this talk about rising material cost, rising labor cost, increased operating cost, etc. is all moot because those are the same problems facing every company. Kith is probably ALD's closest natural competitor based on style, target demographic, location, and what used to be price. They've also expanded to a far greater extent, have far more drops so more photoshoots, promos, marketing, etc., have done more collabs, etc. Going like for like items, I bought a Kith Madison jacket in 2015 for $140. I bought a Madison jacket from them last year for $195 so an increase of ~33%. Like for like with ALD, I bought a wool shawl collar coat in 2016 for $480 that was made to order in NYC. They currently sell a wool top coat for an even $1000. Its the same for Supreme (TNF mountain jacket was $398 and is now $498), Palace (GTX shell was ~$350 and is now ~$450), Noah, and almost all of the streetwear brands that occupy that space.

And that doesn't even take into account outsourcing almost all of their manufacturing to China and going from using things like Japanese cotton to unnamed cotton and things like that. Im not even going to argue about the quality difference but those are definite cost cutting moves by ALD.

If you made the argument that ALD used to be underpriced for what you got, Id definitely agree with you and maybe they are now finding the price they should have always been. But if you really think rising material and operating costs are whats driving their price increases, how is it possible that all of these other companies are still in business? It doesn't make sense.

 

[London]

First, you're right. Goods are worth what people will pay for them and ALD is certainly doing well so it seems they've found the right formula and that is good for them. I've bought their stuff consistently since 2016 and although I've slowed down buying from them, I always pick up a few pieces each season because I like their aesthetic and will probably continue to do so.

But all of this talk about rising material cost, rising labor cost, increased operating cost, etc. is all moot because those are the same problems facing every company. Kith is probably ALD's closest natural competitor based on style, target demographic, location, and what used to be price. They've also expanded to a far greater extent, have far more drops so more photoshoots, promos, marketing, etc., have done more collabs, etc. Going like for like items, I bought a Kith Madison jacket in 2015 for $140. I bought a Madison jacket from them last year for $195 so an increase of ~33%. Like for like with ALD, I bought a wool shawl collar coat in 2016 for $480 that was made to order in NYC. They currently sell a wool top coat for an even $1000. Its the same for Supreme (TNF mountain jacket was $398 and is now $498), Palace (GTX shell was ~$350 and is now ~$450), Noah, and almost all of the streetwear brands that occupy that space.

And that doesn't even take into account outsourcing almost all of their manufacturing to China and going from using things like Japanese cotton to unnamed cotton and things like that. Im not even going to argue about the quality difference but those are definite cost cutting moves by ALD.

If you made the argument that ALD used to be underpriced for what you got, Id definitely agree with you and maybe they are now finding the price they should have always been. But if you really think rising material and operating costs are whats driving their price increases, how is it possible that all of these other companies are still in business? It doesn't make sense.

Kith is an investor not a competitor.

 

[gdl203]

First, you're right. Goods are worth what people will pay for them and ALD is certainly doing well so it seems they've found the right formula and that is good for them. I've bought their stuff consistently since 2016 and although I've slowed down buying from them, I always pick up a few pieces each season because I like their aesthetic and will probably continue to do so.

But all of this talk about rising material cost, rising labor cost, increased operating cost, etc. is all moot because those are the same problems facing every company. Kith is probably ALD's closest natural competitor based on style, target demographic, location, and what used to be price. They've also expanded to a far greater extent, have far more drops so more photoshoots, promos, marketing, etc., have done more collabs, etc. Going like for like items, I bought a Kith Madison jacket in 2015 for $140. I bought a Madison jacket from them last year for $195 so an increase of ~33%. Like for like with ALD, I bought a wool shawl collar coat in 2016 for $480 that was made to order in NYC. They currently sell a wool top coat for an even $1000. Its the same for Supreme (TNF mountain jacket was $398 and is now $498), Palace (GTX shell was ~$350 and is now ~$450), Noah, and almost all of the streetwear brands that occupy that space.

And that doesn't even take into account outsourcing almost all of their manufacturing to China and going from using things like Japanese cotton to unnamed cotton and things like that. Im not even going to argue about the quality difference but those are definite cost cutting moves by ALD.

If you made the argument that ALD used to be underpriced for what you got, Id definitely agree with you and maybe they are now finding the price they should have always been. But if you really think rising material and operating costs are whats driving their price increases, how is it possible that all of these other companies are still in business? It doesn't make sense.

It's just basic economics. If demand far exceeds supply, you can either (a) increase supply dramatically to meet demand at same price or (b) increase prices to meet a lower demand (the more inelastic demand, whose willingness to pay is higher).

Since ALD drops constantly sold out, it had to do one or the other. Supreme went for the former strategy, keeping prices low and increasing supply and distribution dramatically. But ALD chose to shrink distribution instead, focusing on DTC only so it had to go with the latter strategy.

Not doing either is just bad management.

 

[hoodog]

Nice graphs. Here's a personal favorite of mine:

 

[Mujib]

When people get hooked, prices go up and customer service goes down. It's the same everywhere. What are you gonna do, boycott them? Give them a bad review?

 

[troika]

"Damn y'all broke lol" -Teddy

 

[Viral]

another differentiator for Kith is that they are a reseller of other brands.

ALD only sells what they manufature for themselves. They don't sell Nike, Timberland, Ksubi, etc

 

[Timbaland]

another differentiator for Kith is that they are a reseller of other brands.

ALD only sells what they manufature for themselves. They don't sell Nike, Timberland, Ksubi, etc

Kith has their own brand too so it's not just reselling and prices haven't raised as much as ALD on it. Not sure if you were arguing that their raising prices were the result of increasing costs but they will never disclose that information so we will never know for sure.

I think it is a little bit of both, costs have gone up and the supply/demand is there so they raised the prices to cover increased costs and so they make more profit.

 

[zissou]

When people get hooked, prices go up and customer service goes down. It's the same everywhere. What are you gonna do, boycott them? Give them a bad review?

That's why you guys gotta be an early adopter of a brand. Get in while the goods are still good, and the prices still reasonable.

 

[Silentb0b]

It's just basic economics. If demand far exceeds supply, you can either (a) increase supply dramatically to meet demand at same price or (b) increase prices to meet a lower demand (the more inelastic demand, whose willingness to pay is higher).

Since ALD drops constantly sold out, it had to do one or the other. Supreme went for the former strategy, keeping prices low and increasing supply and distribution dramatically. But ALD chose to shrink distribution instead, focusing on DTC only so it had to go with the latter strategy.

Not doing either is just bad management.

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The only problem is that ALD almost never sold out. Even these days, besides a few hyped pieces (Rico Shirt, Player 99, Molyvos, etc.) at least half of their stuff just sits. It's been getting a bit worse recently, especially with FW21 but still a lot of pieces could be had during the sale. When they still sold through distributors, a lot of ALD stuff ended up on sale there as well, sometimes marked down by 40-60% in deep sale. And that seems to be the real reason they went DTC only: They wanted to stop a potential diminishing value of their brand. If your stuff ends up on deep sale, it is by nature of hype not "cool". Now they alone control this.
Side note: I use the EU store for reference, it could be that on the US website stuff actually does sell out constantly. Up until FW20 when they introduced the EU store though that was not the case.