lefty's random dog thread.

[JLibourel]

^It says "Invalid post specified." Can't see it, whatever it may be.

 

[ssnyc]

whippet
http://www.canada.com/victoriatimesc...56e793&k=94653

 

[Chiaroscuro]

Holy ****

 

[GQgeek]

Those Akitas sure are good-looking dogs. I really like siberian huskies too. Rottweilers are awesome too. I don't understand people that get toy togs. I'd want a real dog.

 

[lefty]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

^It says "Invalid post specified." Can't see it, whatever it may be.

It was a Tosa mounting a fellow at some public event. The chap looked none too happy. Sorry, can't find the thread I grabbed it from.

lefty

 

[lefty]

The whippet has a mutated gene as does this breed of cattle:

lefty

 

[JLibourel]

Not exact a "dog" topic but a "canine" one, that was very interesting about two coyotes' jumping and killing up-and-coming 19-year-old Canadian singer/songwriter Taylor Mitchell on Cape Breton Island. Coyotes can be found in many American cities. I used to occasionally see them when I was out walking my dogs. Especially on foggy nights, they would come into Marina Vista Park to hunt the gophers. It was really neat seeing the little wolves doing their thing in the mist. I don't think they come into my neighborhood as much since they developed some areas between my house and the San Gabriel River. Last coyote I saw was a few months ago as I was taking a stroll in El Dorado Park. It was high noon, and he seemed very unconcerned about my presence. I once saw a coyote ***** nonchalantly going about within a hundred yards of a busy shopping area on Beachwood Canyon, also at noontime.

It is very hard for me to see how even two coyotes could pose a threat to any able-bodied adult human, and I love having them around. It is reported that the coyotes that killed the poor singer were about 50 pounds, which is way bigger than our little guys, which are about half that size. It is believed that a lot of these big northern coyotes have an admixture of wolf blood, which may account for their greater size and aggressiveness.

I note that there have been a number of fatal attacks on humans by wolves in North America in the recent past...despite those bumper stickers claiming "Little Red Riding Hood Lied."

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by lefty

The whippet has a mutated gene as does this breed of cattle:

lefty

I knew I picked the right religion. This proves the existence of Zeus.

 

[lefty]

I saw that news item and was going to post it. Like you, I'm a little surprised unless she was a tiny girl and they got lucky. There is this though: "The eastern coyote that lives in the Cape Breton park has interbred with wolves and is somewhat larger than its western ancestors..."

I solo cycled/camped The Cabot Trail about 15 years ago (Cape Breton is one of the most beautiful islands in the world) and did hike the trail where she was attacked. It starts in the scrubby woods than opens up onto rock, lichen and sky, so I guess they could have set upon her in the woods without her hearing or seeing them.

Shame.

lefty

 

[lefty]

The Mastino Napoletano or Neapolitan Mastiff.

There's a lot of bullshit about this breed's history but the following seems reasonable. Jan will have an opinion.

Descended from the legendary wardogs of the Assyrians and Roman arena fighters, the ancestors of the Mastino Napoletano are believed by some to had been the legendary wardogs of Alexander the Great, but seeing how the old Molossers that Alexander took with him on his war campaigns were longhaired, mountain type dogs, like the breeds of Macedonia and Greece, such as the Hellenic Mastiff, Sarplaninec, Molossos tis Epirou, as well as his own famous strain of such dogs known as the Skilos tou Alexandrou, it is more likely that these large shepherd dogs came into contact with existing Roman cattledogs, guardians and fighting dogs and from then on went through generations of crossings and inbreeding, without much attention given to appearance or standards of purity, with ferociousness and working ability being the only qualities of importance. It is claimed by some that the Romans brought old English mastiffs from the British Isles which were supposedly introduced to the bloodlines of their arena dogs, but it should be noted that the Mastin Espanol also played a much more important role in the development of the dogs of Naples, as did the Spanish and Sicilian working bulldogges. For centuries this breed was considered to be just one of the regional types of the working Cane e Presa population of Italy, alongside the Cane Corso, Bucciriscu Calabrese, U Vucciriscu and other varieties used for guarding, fighting and hunting duties prior to the World Wars. The Neapolitan Mastiff finally received its name in the 1940's.

Today, the Neapolitan Mastiff looks and acts very different than it did in the past. The modern version of the breed was developed by Dr.Pierro Scanziani in the years following WW2, when there were very few original proto-Neos left. Some outcrosses with larger Cane Corsos, English Mastiffs, Deutsche Dogges, Saint Bernards, Newfoundlands, Bloodhounds, Brazilian Filas and others were reportedly made to increase the number of specimens for breeding. Scanziani and his supporters exaggerated the initial population's extreme physical features through planned perpetual inbreeding, as well as occasional introduction of other breeds into the Neo's bloodline, with the English Mastiff becoming everyone's favourite outcross.

Some early Mastinos:

Ponzano:

Rare shot of a white Mastino in the late '60s (wonder what this cross was):

Athletic fellow and indistinguishable from a modern day Cane Corso:

This is a big dog and if you can find one who will work he can be quite formidable in close quarters. Most of the ones that I've tested were weak, but occasionally one rose to the challenge. And when they bit, they bit with some force. Imagine this on your arm:

One of the recent uses for the Mastino was as one half of the cross to create the modern bandog. Almost always a male pit to a Mastino *****. There are some breeders that swear that a Mastino brings some deep magic to the cross (I would say defense and size). I've seen some very nice bandogs.

lefty

 

[Flambeur]

Speaking of white molossers - my family used to have a great dane and I ******* loved him. Wouldn't make a good day-to-day working dog but was an awesome guard dog and a companion. Very people and dog aggressive though. Also very intuitive and easy to train when it came to guard dog stuff, but not anything else. Well, he also loved to chase small game.

 

[JLibourel]

Originally Posted by lefty

Descended from the legendary wardogs of the Assyrians and Roman arena fighters, the ancestors of the Mastino Napoletano are believed by some to had been the legendary wardogs of Alexander the Great, but seeing how the old Molossers that Alexander took with him on his war campaigns were longhaired, mountain type dogs, like the breeds of Macedonia and Greece, such as the Hellenic Mastiff, Sarplaninec, Molossos tis Epirou, as well as his own famous strain of such dogs known as the Skilos tou Alexandrou, it is more likely that these large shepherd dogs came into contact with existing Roman cattledogs, guardians and fighting dogs and from then on went through generations of crossings and inbreeding, without much attention given to appearance or standards of purity, with ferociousness and working ability being the only qualities of importance. It is claimed by some that the Romans brought old English mastiffs from the British Isles which were supposedly introduced to the bloodlines of their arena dogs, but it should be noted that the Mastin Espanol also played a much more important role in the development of the dogs of Naples, as did the Spanish and Sicilian working bulldogges. For centuries this breed was considered to be just one of the regional types of the working Cane e Presa population of Italy, alongside the Cane Corso, Bucciriscu Calabrese, U Vucciriscu and other varieties used for guarding, fighting and hunting duties prior to the World Wars. The Neapolitan Mastiff finally received its name in the 1940's.
lefty

So much BS there I would have go on far into the night. Is there any evidence whatsoever that Alexander took any wardogs with him on his campaigns? I've read most all the ancient sources on Alexander--Arrian, Plutarch, Quintus Curtius and Diodorus, and I don't recollect a damn thing about wardogs. The Assyrians used big, mastiffy-type dogs as hunting dogs, no evidence for wardogs. No evidence Romans used dogs in the arena except in venationes, where hunting dogs were used to assist in corralling and killing large numbers of non-dangerous animals. The only testimony that large British dogs were brought to Rome comes from very late (ca. 400 A.D.) Like most bits of canine history, the above is pretty much a flight of fancy.

 

[lefty]

You know much more about this than me, but assuming that men were using dogs for hunting and guard work, why wouldn't they bring some along in a war campaign?

lefty

 

[JLibourel]

^Oh, that Alexander's army may have brought hunting dogs along with them seems probable. Where I take issue is the "wardogs" business, which is almost entirely, if not entirely, the invention of romantic 19th century imaginations. The literary evidence for "ancient wardogs" is negligible. As far as I know, there is no artistic evidence for them whatsovever.

You know much more about attack work, PP, the various protection sports than I do, lefty. I will leave the question up to you: Assuming the wardogs actually existed, how exactly did they "work"? Ancient battles were typically decided by heavily armored men with shields, swords and spears fighting at contact distances. How would the dogs fit in? What, in fact, could they do? Let's look at it another way: You've posted numerous videos of great dogs doing bitework. Now, suppose instead of a bitesuit, the agitator was wearing metal armor, was fending the dog off with a big shield and instead of using a stick or whip was hacking at the dog with a two-foot sword. How much chance would the dog have? Now let's assume, that instead of only one agitator the dog or dogs were confronted with rows of thousands of men so armed. See what I mean?

 

[lefty]

I know nothing about early warfare, but is any of this true:

# 628 BC - The Lydians deployed a separate battalion of fighting dogs.
# 525 BC - Kambyses used huge fighting dogs against Egyptian spearmen and archers.
# 490 BC - Battle of Marathon - A brave fighting dog was immortalized in a mural.
# 385 BC - Siege of Mantineia - Fighting dogs cut off enemy reinforcements.
# 101 BC - Battle of Vercellae - Large Kimber dogs led by women defend their laagers.
# 101 - The Romans employ one fighting dog company per legion.
# 1525 - Henry VIII exports 400 mastiffs to support Spain.
# 1580 - Elizabeth I sends 800 fighting dogs to fight in the Desmond Rebellions.
# 1799 - Napoleon assembles large numbers of fighting dogs in front of his reserves.

I see the value of dogs as camp guards and alarm dogs. I can even see them being used for food when necessary. But I also know that the fear of dogs is instinctive in many people and I doubt that ancient warriors were immune to that.

Yes, I doubt my dog could kill an heavy amoured man. Now me and my dog, that's a different story. I now have a mobile weapon that can act independent of me to worry and confound my enemy. While a PP dog can be used to incapacitate your attacker, it can also be used to buy you time to escape or attack. And it can be sacrificed.

Legions of armoured war dogs? I doubt it. But given the relative ease with which dogs can be transported and kept, why not use a few hundred as a shock force?

lefty