Charvet Shirts Question

[TheFoo]



I'm having Passagio Cravatte copy my Arny's ties right now. And there are plenty of replica Ferrari kits out there. There was a big lawsuit a few years ago because Ferrari sued and won to stop production. They were worried about confusion.

Are you seriously comparing the complexity of copying a tie to copying a shirt? Even in the case of copying a tie, the copy will no doubt be somewhat different than the original. There is no avoiding that--particularly when goods are handmade.

As for your Ferrari replica example: it is truly bizarre. Yes, you can buy a replica of a Ferrari--but you would be a fool to pay as much as you would for a real Ferrari. Also, the replica will not be exactly like the real thing.

 

[jeff13007]



No - youre wrong. He likes his shirt. He thinks it is perfect. Having it replicated is totally logical and so is having Charvet replicate it as opposed to someone else. By the way, Charvet is agnostic on styling. There isn't a single Charvet fit. They follow your directions. What if the OP is using as the model a bespoke Lanvin shirt from 10 years ago? Do you feel differently?

There seems to be some miscommunication here so ill say this as simply as i can. Part of the price that goes into bespoke items is the actual tailor/cobbler/cabinet maker or whatever taking the measurements and then making it around that. As you said yourself "there isn't a single charvet fit"; Yes this is to be expected since it is bespoke and everyone is different. No one in this thread is saying "He can't do it" and i have no idea where you got that idea from, all we are saying is that we think its a waste. Zara shirts fit me almost perfectly off the rack, do you think its logical for me to just send one of those into charvet as opposed to just waiting till i had the chance to go to paris myself and go through the whole process?

 

[jeff13007]



Have you ever had a garment copied? Reverse engineering a ready-made (already worn, nonetheless) shirt will not yield you a copy that fits the same or has exactly the same cut. Moreover, it sounds like the OP does not have experience with bespoke shirts. Thus, whatever he thinks fits well now is probably not as good as it could be.

Charvet may not be known for specific styling, but they are renowned as fitters. I may like the engine in my Honda a great deal, and it may be a great engine, but it would be ludicrous to pay Ferrari prices for Ferrari to copy it.

exactly the point I'm trying to get across but this guy doesn't seem to get it

 

[Griffindork]



Are you seriously comparing the complexity of copying a tie to copying a shirt? Even in the case of copying a tie, the copy will no doubt be somewhat different than the original. There is no avoiding that--particularly when goods are handmade.

As for your Ferrari replica example: it is truly bizarre. Yes, you can buy a replica of a Ferrari--but you would be a fool to pay as much as you would for a real Ferrari. Also, the replica will not be exactly like the real thing.

There isn't anything in my post about the relative complexity of shirts and ties. I'm just answering your question about whether I've had something reverse engineered. Have you and what was it?

As to your point about Charvet, you just have your own view about what the benefits are of a Charvet shirt. But your view is narrow and based only own your preference. If you have a shirt that is perfect, it is logical to want it replicated. And there are many logical reasons to ask Charvet to replicate it as opposed to someone else. Maybe it won't be exactly the same. Maybe it will. Maybe it will be close enough. I don't know either. But I know that Charvet is in a much, much better position than you or I to give advice as to their capabilities. And I know that if they agree to do it and the OP is unhappy, he will get his deposit back.

 

[Griffindork]



Are you seriously comparing the complexity of copying a tie to copying a shirt? Even in the case of copying a tie, the copy will no doubt be somewhat different than the original. There is no avoiding that--particularly when goods are handmade.

As for your Ferrari replica example: it is truly bizarre. Yes, you can buy a replica of a Ferrari--but you would be a fool to pay as much as you would for a real Ferrari. Also, the replica will not be exactly like the real thing.

There isn't anything in my post about the relative complexity of shirts and ties. I'm just answering your question about whether I've had something reverse engineered. Have you and what was it?

As to your point about Charvet, you just have your own view about what the benefits are of a Charvet shirt. But your view is narrow and based only own your preference. If you have a shirt that is perfect, it is logical to want it replicated. And there are many logical reasons to ask Charvet to replicate it as opposed to someone else. Maybe it won't be exactly the same. Maybe it will. Maybe it will be close enough. I don't know either. But I know that Charvet is in a much, much better position than you or I to give advice as to their capabilities. And I know that if they agree to do it and the OP is unhappy, he will get his deposit back.

 

[Griffindork]



exactly the point I'm trying to get across but this guy doesn't seem to get it

I get it. I just think you are ignorant as to what Charvet does and in a bad position to give advice. There are plenty of logical reasons to have Charvet replicate a pattern. Do you think it is ludicrous to buy an off the rack shirt? They are all based on a pattern.

 

[jeff13007]



I get it. I just think you are ignorant as to what Charvet does and in a bad position to give advice. There are plenty of logical reasons to have Charvet replicate a pattern. Do you think it is ludicrous to buy an off the rack shirt? They are all based on a pattern.

You are right, I'm in a bad position to give advice about Charvet, but I'm in a good position to give advice about Bespoke. You said yourself you have 4 years experience with them, now would you yourself for your very first time have just sent in one of your old shirts and have them replicate it?

 

[jeff13007]



There isn't anything in my post about the relative complexity of shirts and ties. I'm just answering your question about whether I've had something reverse engineered. Have you and what was it?

As to your point about Charvet, you just have your own view about what the benefits are of a Charvet shirt. But your view is narrow and based only own your preference. If you have a shirt that is perfect, it is logical to want it replicated. And there are many logical reasons to ask Charvet to replicate it as opposed to someone else. Maybe it won't be exactly the same. Maybe it will. Maybe it will be close enough. I don't know either. But I know that Charvet is in a much, much better position than you or I to give advice as to their capabilities. And I know that if they agree to do it and the OP is unhappy, he will get his deposit back.

As opposed to just going to the original maker?

 

[chiefhk]

Have you ever had a garment copied? Reverse engineering a ready-made (already worn, nonetheless) shirt will not yield you a copy that fits the same or has exactly the same cut. Moreover, it sounds like the OP does not have experience with bespoke shirts. Thus, whatever he thinks fits well now is probably not as good as it could be.

Charvet may not be known for specific styling, but they are renowned as fitters. I may like the engine in my Honda a great deal, and it may be a great engine, but it would be ludicrous to pay Ferrari prices for Ferrari to copy it.

I've actually had some experience with bespoke shirts (Ascot Chang) so am fully aware of the process, qualities of the bespoke fit, etc. The question really is since I am unable to visit Charvet, i was wondering if it's possible to try and seek the next best thing to obtaining a custom Charvet shirt that is somewhat "customized" to a fit that i like and am used to (for example an Ascot Chang shirt) but with the Charvet quality and construction. i'm in HK so there're the much lauded HK tailors/shirtmakers that people are familiar with, i just wanted to see if it's possible to up the ante

 

[Griffindork]



You are right, I'm in a bad position to give advice about Charvet, but I'm in a good position to give advice about Bespoke. You said yourself you have 4 years experience with them, now would you yourself for your very first time have just sent in one of your old shirts and have them replicate it?

It depends. In my estimation, the only difference that I can see with the naked eye that would suggest a fundamentally different approach to shirt making at charvet is the location of the shoulder seam. The location of that seam on my charvet shirt is much more forward on my body than on any ore shirt that I own, bespoke or otherwise. I like the location visually and I assume it effects fit. Is it replicable? I don't know. I can tell you that I'm about to use cifonelli for shirts and will ask them to replicate a number of aspects of my charvet shirts.

In my view, there is something that charvet has that is unique in the bespoke world: 5000 full bolts of amazing fabric that regenerate every season. You can claim a bolt forever. You can wrap it around your body. The selection is mind boggling. If op will have a single chance to visit Paris in the future and wants to be a customer at that time so he can chose among those bolts, then his strategy strikes me as not bad. I can't say whether the charvet fit is unique or the best but if you don't want to pay for cost of carry on those fabric bolts, you are probably overpaying chez charvet. If you care about selection a lot, it isn't crazy to sacrifice other aspects to get that selection. Charvet customers pay for the carry cost of fabric

 

[Griffindork]



As opposed to just going to the original maker?

Sure. Maybe the shirt is off the rack. Maybe the original maker is an insufferable jerk. Maybe you want charvet fabric selection. I could go on...

 

[TheFoo]



I've actually had some experience with bespoke shirts (Ascot Chang) so am fully aware of the process, qualities of the bespoke fit, etc. The question really is since I am unable to visit Charvet, i was wondering if it's possible to try and seek the next best thing to obtaining a custom Charvet shirt that is somewhat "customized" to a fit that i like and am used to (for example an Ascot Chang shirt) but with the Charvet quality and construction. i'm in HK so there're the much lauded HK tailors/shirtmakers that people are familiar with, i just wanted to see if it's possible to up the ante

In that case, why not stick with what you've got? Ascot Chang is a perfectly nicely-made shirt. Asking Charvet to copy something will not get you an exact copy of it, and you will not get workmanship that is significantly different or better than what you get from Ascot Chang. You will just pay a lot more for a copy of a shirt that you already like as is.

In my view, there is something that charvet has that is unique in the bespoke world: 5000 full bolts of amazing fabric that regenerate every season. You can claim a bolt forever. You can wrap it around your body. The selection is mind boggling. If op will have a single chance to visit Paris in the future and wants to be a customer at that time so he can chose among those bolts, then his strategy strikes me as not bad. I can't say whether the charvet fit is unique or the best but if you don't want to pay for cost of carry on those fabric bolts, you are probably overpaying chez charvet. If you care about selection a lot, it isn't crazy to sacrifice other aspects to get that selection. Charvet customers pay for the carry cost of fabric

Yes, this is right. And why the OP would be best advised not to proceed. Unlike a client who gets to visit Charvet in Paris, he will not get to peruse these fabrics. Plus, nobody at Charvet will be fitting him. So, what value is left in getting a Charvet shirt?

 

[Griffindork]



In that case, why not stick with what you've got? Ascot Chang is a perfectly nicely-made shirt. Asking Charvet to copy something will not get you an exact copy of it, and you will not get workmanship that is significantly different or better than what you get from Ascot Chang. You will just pay a lot more for a copy of a shirt that you already like as is.
Yes, this is right. And why the OP would be best advised not to proceed. Unlike a client who gets to visit Charvet in Paris, he will not get to peruse these fabrics. Plus, nobody at Charvet will be fitting him. So, what value is left in getting a Charvet shirt?

He said he won't be able to go to paris for a long time. If, when he does go, he wants to order from that selection, he needs to be a semi-mesure or full mesure customer. If he is seeking a way to do that without multiple visits, this strikes me as a good route. I agree Ascot Chang is a good option as well. I've used them in NYC and I have no complaints.

 

[chiefhk]

In that case, why not stick with what you've got? Ascot Chang is a perfectly nicely-made shirt. Asking Charvet to copy something will not get you an exact copy of it, and you will not get workmanship that is significantly different or better than what you get from Ascot Chang. You will just pay a lot more for a copy of a shirt that you already like as is.
Yes, this is right. And why the OP would be best advised not to proceed. Unlike a client who gets to visit Charvet in Paris, he will not get to peruse these fabrics. Plus, nobody at Charvet will be fitting him. So, what value is left in getting a Charvet shirt?

Sorry, isn't the workmanship at Charvet much better than Ascot Chang? I'm just hoping to have them reference the measurements with the "sample" shirt but construct it the "Charvet" manner. I understand the challenges in doing so and perhaps the end-product and process might not warrant the money spent but TBH all this discussion might actually be moot if it's not even an option available to me.....

 

[TheFoo]



He said he won't be able to go to paris for a long time. If, when he does go, he wants to order from that selection, he needs to be a semi-mesure or full mesure customer. If he is seeking a way to do that without multiple visits, this strikes me as a good route. I agree Ascot Chang is a good option as well. I've used them in NYC and I have no complaints.

I don't understand what you are arguing. He cannot select from Charvet's shirt fabrics without visiting Paris, and he says he cannot visit. You just admitted above that a key reason to pick Charvet as a shirtmaker is access to their fabric collection in Paris.

Since the OP will also not be getting a Charvet fit, he is getting nothing from Charvet that makes Charvet special--except for nicely done construction. Do you think Charvet construction is so much better than Ascot Chang's as to warrant spending hundreds of dollars extra per shirt?