Handsewn lapels: Oxxford, Rubinacci, and Steed

Originally Posted by dopey

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Great thread. I will try to photograph some Dege and Merrion suit or sportcoats if I get a chance. I will leave Raphael's to others. I am warning you now though, all of my coats have collar cuts1, so it may get ugly.

1 I am sure there is a correct term for this, which someone else can supply. I am talking about a small dart hidden under the lapel.


A neck cut, which is used on someone with a prominent chest, to throw cloth where it's needed and to control the bridle (the inside of the roll) so it doesn't bounce off the chest.

Originally Posted by Zegnamtl

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Manton,

When I snap the contrast levels up on the cotton suit, it appears to be the one that shows the most needle work on the back side, is that a side effect of the fabric choice?

I think so.

Originally Posted by Teacher

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I'm very disappointed in some of the Oxxford pics I've seen here. I just checked my one and only Oxxford (from the 90s, in a 90s gray worsted), and it's very neat and clean.............

There has been some very nice hand work shown here.

I had never seen an Oxxford until a few years ago, I can't help but wonder if they went through a period of "dark days"??

Originally Posted by Zegnamtl

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There has been some very nice hand work shown here.

I had never seen an Oxxford until a few years ago, I can't help but wonder if they went through a period of "dark days"??

This could be true, although the OP M. obtained his Oxxford MTM relatively recently. I have a vintage Oxxford from the early 1960s from Maus and Hoffman that I am getting back from my alterations tailor in two weeks or so...it's a tweed, but I will try to get a photograph of it.

At least in my case, I am not too bothered by where Oxxford falls short when compared to the finest in the world, which Oxxford is not. It's okay that they are not in the very top ranks, and I still keep several Oxxfords and wear them with pleasure (as I will today).

It is interesting to see the variation in the refinement of handwork among makes and within makes.

I think that you have been instrumental, Z. in widening the base of knowledge of some of the factual construction differences among some of the big, quality RTW makers (Oxxford, Kiton, Borrelli). Oxxford seems to attempt to make a bit more of the garment by hand than the Italian RTW-oriented top brands, but at Oxxford's level of production and over time, I do not believe that they put out a product as consistent or good as a top bespoke maker.

I do not think this should be startling nor cause owners not to enjoy their Oxxfords.

In fact, owners who have Oxxfords that fit them well and that are better made than the samples I have posted should celebrate their good fortune. I mean, a practical person might ask, "Who is going to walk up to you, flip over your lapel, and critique the construction of your coat?"


- B

Des Merrion:



This was worn today, so the little brown thing is the corner of a wallet peeking out. The white threads on the collar melton are not stitching - they are the white threads from the cloth. The stitching is visible, but it is gray and you have to look a bit more closely.

Here for interest are pictures of the best vintage frock coat from my collection. I would date it to approximately the 1910s-20s:

This might stir this thread up a little...Hickey Freemans new Handsewn line. You may have seen the ads, I saw a suit today, it was beautiful (at least for a HF). I can't confirm what exact percentage is hand sewn (the vertical seams are machine, of course), but I know it is enough to call it handsewn. I only saw one large book of fabrics so far, but very nice. Starting around super 140's for the suitings, and also jacket fabrics. They are made on the Presidential model and start around $3100.

Originally Posted by Zegnamtl

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I had never seen an Oxxford until a few years ago, I can't help but wonder if they went through a period of "dark days"??

Now? The factory has shrunk from over seven floors to barely three. They have not had a great time finding replacements for retiring workers either.

Des Merrion, again. This is a tropical weight Lesser fabric (the other was 12/13oz) so the pad and pic stitching is more visible.

Originally Posted by dopey

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Lesser fabric (the other was 12/13oz)

Err, what colour is that other 13 oz Lesser? Like, an espresso brown base with tannish brownish dots? If so, I think I have a suit in the exact same cloth. It's pretty spectacular.

Originally Posted by Mildly Consumptive

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Err, what colour is that other 13 oz Lesser? Like, an espresso brown base with tannish brownish dots? If so, I think I have a suit in the exact same cloth. It's pretty spectacular.

Sorry for the lack of clarity. The other cloth is a Charles Clayton and it is grey, not brown.

Originally Posted by thomaus247

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This might stir this thread up a little...Hickey Freemans new Handsewn line. You may have seen the ads, I saw a suit today, it was beautiful (at least for a HF). I can't confirm what exact percentage is hand sewn (the vertical seams are machine, of course), but I know it is enough to call it handsewn. I only saw one large book of fabrics so far, but very nice. Starting around super 140's for the suitings, and also jacket fabrics. They are made on the Presidential model and start around $3100.
Please forgive the late reply Mr. Maus, the lapel on this HF is close to perfect, too perfect actually, to the point I wonder if it is machine padded. Some time ago there was a raging debate about how to define, hand made, hand sewn etc. When HF says hand sewn, then every inch of it should be hand sewn. Not even Oxxford makes that claim, they, Kiton, Borrelli etc use the term hand made since little to no automated machinery is used. Not too long ago, I really did not care how they made my clothes as long as it fit well, felt great and was not fused, and to a degree, I still do not care that much today, but the production aspect of the textile trade has fascinated me. If I were to bet a cappuccino on it, I would bet that this lapel is machine padded, or done with a blind stitching machine.

Originally Posted by unpainted huffheinz

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Now? The factory has shrunk from over seven floors to barely three. They have not had a great time finding replacements for retiring workers either.

Based on the one recent jacket of mine, I would certainly not say "now". It is a stunning piece.

Just about ever industry in NA is lacking skilled workers at the moment, how they replacing the aging work force could be make or break in the next few years for them and many others.

Originally Posted by Zegnamtl

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Please forgive the late reply Mr. Maus,
the lapel on this HF is close to perfect, too perfect actually, to the point I wonder if it is machine padded.



Well, that depends on what you mean by 'perfect'. The edge stitching is perfectly uniform; to me, that means the stitches must be machine-made. They're also easily discernable and spaced relatively far from the lapel's edge. In comparison, the really good hand stitches we've seen are difficult to see at all.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Well, that depends on what you mean by 'perfect'. The edge stitching is perfectly uniform; to me, that means the stitches must be machine-made. They're also easily discernable and spaced relatively far from the lapel's edge. In comparison, the really good hand stitches we've seen are difficult to see at all.
Perhaps you have missed the point:

Originally Posted by Zegnamtl

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the lapel on this HF is close to perfect, too perfect actually, to the point I wonder if it is machine padded.
"too perfect" "Machine Padded" The bulk of this thread is about the guts of how the lapel is made, not the superficial or cosmetic details like pick stitching, whether real or fake. Like you, and many here, I do not like very visible pick stitching or accent thread, but that is a detail one can have altered when ordering a jacket. How the house sews the lapel is generally not open to discussion. Area of discussion: