Abs, Chest, and Arms

Originally Posted by Saucemaster

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I don't have any problem with YOU finding bodybuilders' proportions attractive and proportionally pleasing. I have a problem with being told that I should find them similarly aesthetically pleasing.
And also, as you noted at one point, that you secretly already do.

I think smw356 wins the thread with set theory.

I thought it might help to keep it on grade level...
I suppose I should have just pushed myself to the limit, like uebermensch, moon-walking Jay Cutler, who ***** rose petals.

Ah well. Maybe next time.

"God bless these imaginauts" might be one of my favorite SF quotes in a while.

I thought so too. I wish I could reach unherto travelled lands like they do.

Originally Posted by Philosoph

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1. Actually, even if you have stick legs, you still have a proportion. Not a good one (did you not notice that nobody here wants stick legs?), but it is a mathematical proportion.

2. There is nothing "wrong" with wanting to look like Jay, if you're in the same context as he is, namely pro bodybuilding. In that context, looking like Jay is a good thing because you'll be a strong competitor. What is wrong is your argument that his standard is universally applicable.

1. For some reason, I can tell you what should be aesthetically pleasing but you are unable to.

2. You can look like Jay without being a pro bodybuilder.
Its like watching Brad Pitt in the Green Man with green hair.
You are now saying you can only dye green hair if you are in the movie and no, in real life?

Originally Posted by Philosoph

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1. Actually, even if you have stick legs, you still have a proportion. Not a good one (did you not notice that nobody here wants stick legs?), but it is a mathematical proportion.

2. There is nothing "wrong" with wanting to look like Jay, if you're in the same context as he is, namely pro bodybuilding. In that context, looking like Jay is a good thing because you'll be a strong competitor. What is wrong is your argument that his standard is universally applicable.

What Jay does in and out of the gym is nothing special. Its not some esoteric ritual.

Anyone who goes to the gym does it, including you. Unless you are one of those monkey boys who put a towel on the equipment, only to chat with friends, watch TV etc and do 1 set in 1 hour and call it a workout.

If what you say is true, I might as well dont imitate Tiger's swing that rocket the ball to 400 yards or follow Rog Fed's swift racket motion because that is something used by the 'professionals' and unless I am a professional, I shouldnt do it. Ha ha!

Tiger's swing and Rog's motion is universally applicable unless your goal is to be a total loser in golf and tennis. In that case, do the totally opposite ie. my 2nd Para.

Originally Posted by smw356

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Ok, your logical fallacy is in that you are implying properties from a subset to its superset, which is not allowed.


So we have Set P, which is a set of all people


we have set L which is bodybuilders such as your esteemed self

L is a subset of P, and P is L's superset

all of P's properties apply to L, however the relationship is not conversely true.



So regardless of what the IFBB thinks or what your or I think of the IFBB, it cannot logically be applied outside of its domain.


Set Theory does not lie.

Oh now, the homophobe decide to rebut and have to resort to using his old statistics book in support. Please allow me to retort:

There are many in Cat L who have changed the world: Darwin, early Christians.
By their brave actions, they have changed the mindset of Cat P. Not all, but a great majority.

The only reason it cannot be applied outside its domain is closed minds like yours.

BTW the only superset I know is flat bench and flat dumb press.

Please go back and dig up more old textbooks and theories to reply if you wish. If you concede defeat, please go to gym and work your ass off instead. You may not be Jay but being half Jay is good enough.

Originally Posted by Philosoph

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I think smw356 wins the thread with set theory.

I thought it might help to keep it on grade level...
I suppose I should have just pushed myself to the limit, like uebermensch, moon-walking Jay Cutler, who ***** rose petals.

Ah well. Maybe next time.

If he wins the thread with set theory, I win the entire post.
If I win anything, I gladly surrender it for you guys to go to the gym and train like Jay. Broaden your horizons. Jay is flesh and blood like you and me. If Jay can, so can you.

Originally Posted by Saucemaster

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Well, Philosoph pretty well schooled you, so my response is superfluous at this point. But I would note that one of the reasons that most people do NOT find a world-class bodybuilding body attractive is precisely because it offends their sense of proportion. If you could somehow make your head, feet, and hands larger while growing muscle, and most importantly, if you could somehow get a lot taller, then perhaps a bodybuilder's proportions would more closely to conform to those that most find attractive.

While I think there are general consensus views on what counts as "attractive", I don't think there SHOULD be any sort of universal standards. I don't have any problem with YOU finding bodybuilders' proportions attractive and proportionally pleasing. I have a problem with being told that I should find them similarly aesthetically pleasing.

1. I hardly think you can speak on behalf of most people. I suspect the reason most people finds it offensive because they are allergic to hard work in the gym.
If Jay has a 3rd pec muscle, then it will be offensive and grotesque.

2. As far as I know, its still a free world. I am not telling you what to find pleasing. Thats your perogative.

But just as most people find Mona Lisa to be art and some dung scratching on paper by Buddy Clinton to be crap, just as most people find Osama for what he did, an abomination, most people will and should find Jay to be the epitome of manhood.

Why, you ask? Because its logical and correct and based on all the right principles. It just feels right and is right.

What if these people dont find Jay to be the epitome or Mona Lisa to be art? Then these people must be educated.

Originally Posted by beasty

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1. I hardly think you can speak on behalf of most people. I suspect the reason most people finds it offensive because they are allergic to hard work in the gym.
Do you find excessive tattoos and extreme piercings offensive because you are afraid it will hurt?

Originally Posted by beasty

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2. As far as I know, its still a free world. I am not telling you what to find pleasing. Thats your perogative.
Really? You're not telling us how we should perceive something?

Originally Posted by beasty

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But just as most people find Mona Lisa to be art and some dung scratching on paper by Buddy Clinton to be crap, just as most people find Osama for what he did, an abomination, most people will and should find Jay to be the epitome of manhood.
Wait, so if you we don't agree with you, then what?

Originally Posted by beasty

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What if these people dont find Jay to be the epitome or Mona Lisa to be art? Then these people must be educated.
Hmm....methinks you've used the Orwellian definition here.

Originally Posted by beasty

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Why, you ask? Because its logical and correct and based on all the right principles. It just feels right and is right.
Stating something is logical because it "feels right" sums up the contradictions in your reasoning pretty well. You have displayed zero ability to step outside your own physical ideals and realize how far outside society's norms you are. I, for your sake, hope this myopia is merely a result of your obvious immaturity, and not something you'll carry with you for the rest of your life, because you'll encounter a lot of resistance to tell people what they should "logically" find attractive because "it just feels right" (to you).

Originally Posted by beasty

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If he wins the thread with set theory, I win the entire post.

Has to be a troll. This one sentence reiterates the exact logical flaw that smw objected to. Brilliant. Can this actually be unintentional?

At any rate, I realized who beasty reminds me of (assuming he's not actually a troll, which is a pretty scary thought): Homer Simpson. In the episode where he wins boxing matches simply by taking punches until his opponents are so tired that he just pushes them over.

Beasty: For future reference, saying "Why? Because it's logical" doesn't actually mean anything until you lay out a logical argument. Otherwise I'd never have received anything less than an A+ on any of my papers in college. Just warning you before you get to the point where it matters.

On the other hand, now I've got the perfect ending to any paper, ever. Check it out:

"Babies were made to be killed and eaten. Why? Because it's logical, and based on all the right principles. God bless these imaginauts.

"

I've never had two separate, incorrect arguments made against one of my posts before.

I've thought beasty was a troll since the first time he called Jay the epitome of manhood. Even people who actually believe that probably wouldn't put it that way. It's too obviously psychotic. Besides, who in their right mind would come to SF to start spewing this crap? I'd think the Teen or Misc. sections on BB.com would be better forums for this.

Originally Posted by Brian278

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Do you find excessive tattoos and extreme piercings offensive because you are afraid it will hurt?



Really? You're not telling us how we should perceive something?



Wait, so if you we don't agree with you, then what?



Hmm....methinks you've used the Orwellian definition here.



Stating something is logical because it "feels right" sums up the contradictions in your reasoning pretty well. You have displayed zero ability to step outside your own physical ideals and realize how far outside society's norms you are. I, for your sake, hope this myopia is merely a result of your obvious immaturity, and not something you'll carry with you for the rest of your life, because you'll encounter a lot of resistance to tell people what they should "logically" find attractive because "it just feels right" (to you).


I didnt state its logical. I explained why.