Leather cracking on EGs - please advise

Did you ever condition, or just polish? Wax, or cream polish?

Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH

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Did you ever condition, or just polish? Wax, or cream polish?

Regular conditioning; cream polish every 4 polishes, and regular wax the rest of the time. All of those with Saphir Medaille d'Or products. I wonder what percentage of EG customers (not on this forum, but in general) gives this level of care to their shoes.

I agree that I would be upset. However, I think there are variances, beyond EG's control, that affect the life of leather. They can buy the premium leathers, but there are elements outside of their control, for example--how the leather is stored prior to EG receiving it. Some of these potential issues are impossible for EG to know, and they have no way to control them. Also, I imagine that when they made the shoes, there is no way to detect potential long term issues. This is the fault with handmade products that are made of natural materials. I can see EG's position that they should not replace the shoes because they have no idea how you cared for them, and they have no way to prevent this kind of problem.

Originally Posted by Tibo

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Regular conditioning; cream polish every 4 polishes, and regular wax the rest of the time. All of those with Saphir Medaille d'Or products. I wonder what percentage of EG customers (not on this forum, but in general) gives this level of care to their shoes.

I am a freak about conditioning & polish, as I do the 1st every 6 months, and the 2nd every 2 wears. Let me emphasize, THIS IS OVERKILL!!!

The level of care endorsed on SF is way more than what should have been necessary to avoid cracks. Wax or cream polish shouldn't be an issue when it comes to cracks, nor should conditioner. In the "old days", men bought "work/ dress shoes" for LIFE. They didn't have shoe trees (or RARELY used them). 99.9% of men NEVER even heard of shoe polish or conditioner, much less used them. HOWEVER, somehow those shoes just lasted the requisite 20 years+.

Shouldn't our expectations be higher for 2011 EG than they were for 1930 Stetson????

That's a perfectly valid point of view from their perspective. But then mine is crystal clear too: I'm just not going to buy this brand anymore. And given that EG probably relies on a handful of good customers who in turn rely on word of mouth to choose the brand they will buy, I would be worried by something like this spreading over the Interwebz.

This isn't a mass production thing. It's about shoes sold at prices which would make 99% of male customers faint. If they can't justify the price by the quality of their product, I think they're in bad shape.

What with this thread and the "Re: Issues with Edward Green Service. Am I overreacting?" thread things arent looking good for my first foray into buying Brand New Full Price Edward Greens

Originally Posted by Tibo

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Regular conditioning; cream polish every 4 polishes, and regular wax the rest of the time. All of those with Saphir Medaille d'Or products. I wonder what percentage of EG customers (not on this forum, but in general) gives this level of care to their shoes.

What did you condition with? If it's cracking like that it's because the leather has dried out. cream and wax polish =/= conditioner, in this case you would need to use saphir's renovateur. I think excessive polishing without conditioner was a contributing factor. I don't' see EG as able to do much without them going out of business(in the long run). While nice shoes should last a long time, there's really no guarantee, 5 years is a long time to be subject to abuse, elements in nature etc.

Conditioning with Saphir Medaille d'Or rà novateur...

Originally Posted by kev777

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What with this thread and the "Re: Issues with Edward Green Service. Am I overreacting?" thread things arent looking good for my first foray into buying Brand New Full Price Edward Greens

+1 I'm waiting on my first pair. Hopefully any issues will be lessened since they are shell cordovan.

Certainly their 'you're to blame' attitude is cowardly and piss poor. Most certainly it would be clear from the condition of the shoes as to whether they had been looked after or not. Even if they had been neglected, I very much doubt if they would have cracked like that. If the shoes are as delicate as china then they should put that on the website. Either way, I think you have a good case. Their reputation.

Just to put a bug in your ear...I'm not a big fan of overpriced factory made shoes but some of this the maker doesn't have much control over.

For instance, the maker could be buying the same leather, with the same finish, from the same tanner for decades...all with nothing but highest satisfaction. And, then, because of a shortage of, or restrictions on certain chemicals used in the dying or tanning process (sometimes as simple as tightening environmental standards) the new batch ends up being almost an entirely different product. Not even a careful, hide-by-hide visual inspection (and no factory is going to do that) will reveal such problems with certainty. Ultimately it comes down to how many complaints they get.

And the poor tanner...any given year the weather can affect the quality of the hides. Too much cold weather, too much hot, too much rain....

And if the the hides are not cured and curried properly before being sent to the tanner...because of too much cold, too much hot, too much rain...well, again the tanner is on the hook.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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Just to put a bug in your ear...I'm not a big fan of overpriced factory made shoes but some of this the maker doesn't have much control over.

For instance, the maker could be buying the same leather, with the same finish, from the same tanner for decades...all with nothing but highest satisfaction. And, then, because of a shortage of, or restrictions on certain chemicals used in the dying or tanning process (sometimes as simple as tightening environmental standards) the new batch ends up being almost an entirely different product. Not even a careful, hide-by-hide visual inspection (and no factory is going to do that) will reveal such problems with certainty. Ultimately it comes down to how many complaints they get.

And the poor tanner...any given year the weather can affect the quality of the hides. Too much cold weather, too much hot, too much rain....

And if the the hides are not cured and curried properly before being sent to the tanner...because of too much cold, too much hot, too much rain...well, again the tanner is on the hook.

Just a thought.

I certainly understand what you've said here. ALSO, I respect your point of view & do NOT mean to criticize it.

HOWEVER, EG is, in the minds of SF'ers & fine shoe lovers everywhere in the "BIG THREE" of fine shoemakers. Lobb, Vass, EG. There are others, of course, but EG always seems to be up at the VERY top. BOTH in opinions on quality & in PRICE.

When you're at the top, and charging top prices, there are NO EXCUSES. "Well, I bought the leather from someone else, and it was HIS fault" just DOES NOT cut it at this level.

Being the best means having MANY levels of quality assurance & quality inspection. If one pair of shoes passes through that are below standard, then the company has FAILED, in that (very important) regard.

Originally Posted by isshinryu101

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I certainly understand what you've said here. ALSO, I respect your point of view & do NOT mean to criticize it.

HOWEVER, EG is, in the minds of SF'ers & fine shoe lovers everywhere in the "BIG THREE" of fine shoemakers. Lobb, Vass, EG. There are others, of course, but EG always seems to be up at the VERY top. BOTH in opinions on quality & in PRICE.

When you're at the top, and charging top prices, there are NO EXCUSES. "Well, I bought the leather from someone else, and it was HIS fault" just DOES NOT cut it at this level.

Being the best means having MANY levels of quality assurance & quality inspection. If one pair of shoes passes through that are below standard, then the company has FAILED, in that (very important) regard.

I think what DFWII is saying is this could have happened to Lobb or Vass or just about anyone else. It technically isn't there "fault" (they didn't tan the stuff and no amount of quality control would catch it every time) though maybe, as you seem to suggest, they should take responsibility for it.

It kind of just looks like heavy creasing rather than cracking, but if you get any leather shoes remotely wet then it doesn't matter if they cost £10 or £1,000 the leather will suffer.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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. And, then, because of a shortage of, or restrictions on certain chemicals used in the dying or tanning process (sometimes as simple as tightening environmental standards) the new batch ends up being almost an entirely different product. .

This is totally happenning for sure and is one of my biggest pet peeves. Its happenning to many products that surround us. Just look at automotve paints (actually all paints). I feel nothing but contempt for such regulations.

I have a pair of italian shoes purchased 15 years ago. These are some designer brands with a fairly nice leather but typical cement construction. Well guess what after being worn every work day for the first 3 years and then more reasonably after but sometimes in the rain, the black calf upper still does not have the slightest crack. It has never been conditioned or renovated or anything of the sort. Just straight black kiwi shoe wax (not even the premium one). The leather is still buttery soft. Oh and shoe trees, didn't even know they still existed until a few years ago. Plenty of wrinkles but not a single crack.

TBH many of my other more recent shoes have not faired as well! It seems the softer the leather the less it is likely to crack in the long term.