Death or This God-awful threak?

Originally Posted by Vintage Gent

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gdl, I've gone back over this thread, and nowhere can I find where a vegan tars a meat-eater with the monster aspersion. Maybe I missed it. What I did find was a hatred of veganism that borders on the irrational, complete with threats of violence (all meant in good fun, I'm sure).

This thread was only started as an offshoot of the veal thread. In that thread, there was relatively normal discussion of veal brands and flavor and dishes, etc, and a poster on the first page asked how m uch we were willing to make an animal suffer. And Nosu or another poster came in and posted a video about veal "production" methods, and told everyone that what they were eating was causing animals to suffer.

Originally Posted by Vintage Gent

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gdl, I've gone back over this thread, and nowhere can I find where a vegan tars a meat-eater with the monster aspersion. Maybe I missed it. What I did find was a hatred of veganism that borders on the irrational, complete with threats of violence (all meant in good fun, I'm sure).

I see that kwilk already addressed it. Sorry, I didn't realize that you did not know the poll originated from discussions in the veal thread.

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

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This thread was only started as an offshoot of the veal thread. In that thread, there was relatively normal discussion of veal brands and flavor and dishes, etc, and a poster on the first page asked how m uch we were willing to make an animal suffer. And Nosu or another poster came in and posted a video about veal "production" methods, and told everyone that what they were eating was causing animals to suffer.

I see. Hadn't read that one for pretty obvious reasons. I have no real interest in haranguing people about their food choices. I'm just not that strident.

On the other hand, virtually every thread about vegetarianism ends up with rampant insults against vegetarians. So for meat eaters to get up in arms when a vegetarian pisses on their threads smacks of hypocrisy.

Originally Posted by coonky

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Some wines are filtered over fish guts, so those wines are not vegan. How far "vegans" take it varies a lot.

trying to stretch out the argument with your choice of words there, no? There is an enzyme in fish bladders that is used to clean and clarify wines on a molecular basis. Most wineries don't do this, but some do. The part of the fish is then removed. Sometimes, an extremely minute amount of fish remains in the wine, but it wasn't until very sophisticated machinery was used that it was able to be detected (older technology could not).

Still, this is quite rare. More common are egg whites.

Originally Posted by gomestar

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trying to stretch out the argument with your choice of words there, no? There is an enzyme in fish bladders that is used to clean and clarify wines on a molecular basis. Most wineries don't do this, but some do. The part of the fish is then removed. Sometimes, an extremely minute amount of fish remains in the wine, but it wasn't until very sophisticated machinery was used that it was able to be detected (older technology could not).

Still, this is quite rare. More common are egg whites.
Egg whites can't be vegan either, though.

In Berkeley there was an anti-bread movement because of what they called the "yeast holocaust". I remember getting their pamphlet "Silent Screams".

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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If it's your culture to kill me and eat me, go ahead and try it.

Soylent Green is Japanese?

Originally Posted by Manton

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In Berkeley there was an anti-bread movement because of what they called the "yeast holocaust". I remember getting their pamphlet "Silent Screams".

I assume you read the pamphlet, so you know more about their position than I, but I assumed the term "yeast holocaust" referred to the fear that yeast would mutate into an organism capable of destroying much life on the planet--as opposed to a concern for the "suffering" of the poor little yeasties.

Originally Posted by Vintage Gent

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I realize this is all a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it didn't have its genesis in Dumb Threads, so I'll address the germ of seriousness contained here.

For the life of me, I cannot explain why vegetarians and vegans (of which, at least from a dietary perspective, I'm one) get such animus here. Never once have I tried to advance the vegan diet, nor have I cast aspersions on those who choose to eat animal derived foods. Yet the meat-eaters among us seem to feel it's open season for attacks on the vegetarian folks.

You want to eat meat? Fine. Go forth and live your life. You'll get no gruff from me. But I choose not to (in large part because the men in my family toil with heart disease at an early age, so I need every advantage I can get). I simply ask for the same respect.

Is that too much to ask?

Thank you, Vintage Gent. This thread is entirely asinine.

Originally Posted by Vintage Gent

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I assume you read the pamphlet, so you know more about their position than I, but I assumed the term "yeast holocaust" referred to the fear that yeast would mutate into an organism capable of destroying much life on the planet--as opposed to a concern for the "suffering" of the poor little yeasties.

You would then be wrong.

Originally Posted by Manton

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In Berkeley there was an anti-bread movement because of what they called the "yeast holocaust". I remember getting their pamphlet "Silent Screams".

I want to believe this is satire, but I lived in Berkeley for a while, and sadly I cannot be sure.

I'll tell you what I don't understand about the vegans/vegetarians I've known: Why all the products that are orchestrated to seem like or taste like or feel like meat? You want to eat veggies, fine. But what, pray tell, is the purpose of vegan pepperoni?

nobody is trying to attack you, VG and samus. Nor your lifestyle (that is not my intention at least). Rather, it's the slander and things like "you wouldn't eat your dog, would you?" from the vegans in the other thread that is producing animosity that is spilling over. Last I checked nobody (besides Fuuma) supports animal cruelty nor gives overwhelming support to the meat industry.

Originally Posted by coonky

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I am actually involved in animal research, yet I am vegan. This seems like a major inconsistency, but in a way, it's not. See, to eat animals is totally unnecessary whereas to research biology animal experiments are the only way to go. There's simply no way around it, though we often can and do culture animal cells in vitro to avoid the difficulty of working with the live animal. You have to understand that working with animals is a big pain in the a$$. But there's still a question of whether the research is necessary. Most scientists think so: research is for the greater good like you said. It's all about intention. My $ 0.02. As a side note, some researchers are more careful about animals' feelings than others, but I can say I always do my best even though I only research fruit flies. For example, before dumping them into the "fly morgue" (soapy ethanol), I always knock them out on CO_2.
Let me know how your veganism works when you step up to injecting SD rats and balb/c mice with cancer cells or implanting osmotic pumps with chemicals to induce arthritis before having to do cardiac punctures, cervical dislocations, and then slicing them open to yank out spleens or using a giant guillotine to collect their limbs. And I don't think you can dump the flies into ethanol unless they're knocked out, otherwise, they fly away; that's the only way I've ever done it. But you bring to light the issue of a lack of a someone between a vegetarian and a vegan, since vegans aren't supposed to use/wear/consume anything that came from animals. Perhaps you're really a vegan-lite or hard core vegetarian, but you're not truly a vegan.

Originally Posted by Vintage Gent

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I assume you read the pamphlet, so you know more about their position than I, but I assumed the term "yeast holocaust" referred to the fear that yeast would mutate into an organism capable of destroying much life on the planet--as opposed to a concern for the "suffering" of the poor little yeasties.
I thought they already have done that and are called "women."

Originally Posted by gomestar

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nobody is trying to attack you, VG and samus. Nor your lifestyle (that is not my intention at least).

I appreciate that, but did you read this thread? And do a quick search for vegetarianism. With the exception of a few threads that ask for practical advice, the general sentiment toward vegetarianism in these parts is not warm and fuzzy.

Originally Posted by gomestar

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nobody is trying to attack you, VG and samus. Nor your lifestyle (that is not my intention at least). Rather, it's the slander and things like "you wouldn't eat your dog, would you?" from the vegans in the other thread that is producing animosity that is spilling over. Last I checked nobody (besides Fuuma) supports animal cruelty nor gives overwhelming support to the meat industry.

I'm not a vegan (or even a vegetarian), nor do I endorse vegans harassing omnivores at every turn. But by the same token, I do recognize what VG has pointed out, that given the number of non-meat-eaters that ply these waters the vehemence of the reaction is considerably out of proportion. And (as others have noted) this thread is tongue-in-cheek - surely I hope no one would actually choose to die rather than give up animal products - it produces people saying things like they'd like to KILL all vegetarians and vegans.

My suspicion is that many can't bear confrontation with ethical dilemma, and when vegetarians and vegans make their case, no matter how unobtrusively, it sparks some sort of cognitive dissonance that results in unreasonable hatred. It's almost a religious thing. I, for one, have thought about the issues and I have definitely changed my eating behaviors, but I chose to continue eating meat raised in humane ways. I'm not perfect about it, but neither does consciousness of the issues involved inflame my passions.

Are there obnoxious, self-righteous vegans and vegetarians out there? Certainly. I haven't read the veal thread, and so again I won't vouch for comments made there. But really? This all just seems a little ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Douglas

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I'll tell you what I don't understand about the vegans/vegetarians I've known: Why all the products that are orchestrated to seem like or taste like or feel like meat? You want to eat veggies, fine. But what, pray tell, is the purpose of vegan pepperoni?

Really? This is difficult to figure out? Pepperoni tastes good, and maybe, just maybe, some people would like to still eat it if problematic issues of ethics and morality were removed from the equation?