Backpack: Need, but Do Not Like

Originally Posted by KaiserSose

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I appreciate that you live in a rugged part of Montana, but pretty much none of what you said applies to my NYC lifestyle.
I know! No one ever carries more than 10 pounds around in NYC.

Originally Posted by Sigmatic

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don't buy one. if a 'made in' tag and the owners' personal beliefs are more important to you than the product itself, you obviously won't appreciate it.
Yeah, who gives a **** about deceptive advertising practices?

I'm looking for some type of brown leather backpack that is soft, yet durable and available for around $600. If it's super dope I might spend up to maybe $800. Any ideas?

I just started my hunt, and I'm really not sure what brands even make them. For the record, I'm not looking for an outdoorsy type bag like Filson, nor any type of technical bag like Northface. I'm looking for something more 'fashion-forward', for lack of a better word.

Typical load for me is 1 - 10 pounds, with it being 2-3 a large portion of the time. Also, I'm never walking miles in the city and I assume it is this way for most living in a large city.

Backpack is just something I'd prefer to use as an alternative / over a tote

Originally Posted by Crane's

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Where you live has nothing to do with it. What matters is how far you're stuck dragging X amount of stuff around. If it's a block that's one thing if it's miles it's another.



Actually you're missing the other element when it comes to designing something. That element is fit as in fit for an intended purpose. As far as load weights are concerned a poster in this thread weighed up their stuff and it was 26 pounds or so. My guess would be that a typical load would weigh between 20 and 30 pounds given the information offered in this thread. As I said before most of the "style" driven packs in this thread are not designed for this type of load. Neither are their harnesses which is far more important. The harness is what will either make you or break you physically. I don't concern myself with whether or not something is quote stylish when my body is at stake. The only real concern should be whether it is fit for the intended purpose and has the correct form for the intended purpose. If it does then it will perform well for the intended purpose. Screw up fitness and form and you can forget about functionality.

Originally Posted by onion

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I'm looking for some type of brown leather backpack that is soft, yet durable and available for around $600. If it's super dope I might spend up to maybe $800. Any ideas?

I just started my hunt, and I'm really not sure what brands even make them. For the record, I'm not looking for an outdoorsy type bag like Filson, nor any type of technical bag like Northface. I'm looking for something more 'fashion-forward', for lack of a better word.

how about a filson?

anyway, at that price, you should be able to have something custom made

Originally Posted by Arethusa

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Eh. Their bags are made in Mexico, which would be fine if they didn't charge so much (debatable) and didn't go to such great pains to conceal it (less debatable). They crossed a line when they started astroturfing posts all over the internet (including here). That combined with the overweening turbochristian thing is pretty ******* obnoxious. Maybe they've gotten their **** together. I really have no idea. What bags did they are on the way? Also this. TAD Gear crew represent.
I thought the cost was mostly due to the leather? Some of the belts touted on SF made of that type of leather -- the vaunted 'bridle' leather, go for over a hundred bucks, so here's a bag with two whole belts on it plus a lot more leather that's 4-5 hundred. I'm surprised it's that low. Also, I don't see how they go to pains to conceal that the bags are made in Mexico -- it's like in all their literature! Almost every page and in their 'about me' and FAQs?! What are you going on about? I think the Christian thing is just really getting up your nose. I get the feeling that they treat their people well, and if so, then I am more than happy to pay more. That feels honest -- I much prefer expensive artisanal work than products made by alienated labor. No, I haven't gone to their works to see it, but I hope they're not lying. They may be. I'm not inclined to think so. As for the Christian thing, well, I don't think its all that bad, and it's really more of a God thing than a Christian thing. So they send some scriptures with their bags -- damn, man, that's like telling yall to go and kill the heathen! There are Christians and there are Christians, but by and by most Christians are less apt to screw you over for profit than anyone else. de Tocqueville thought that religion was the only thing keeping the American Way from becoming mindlessly self-centered and exploitative beyond conception, the check on the invisible hand. As far as the astroturfing, what, you mean they were spamming SF? I am not happy about that -- when?

Originally Posted by Crane's

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A true back pack is a functional load bearing piece of gear and is not designed with fashion in mind. Packs from Osprey are a prime example. The most important aspect of a pack is the harness period. They are designed to distribute weight comfortably and won't tear you up in the process. Half the packs in this thread aren't worth a **** for carrying around loads nearing 30 pounds. The harnesses are pretty much a joke and the materials used for the body won't last long. So if you are seriously worried about load carrying then buy a real day pack from a company that is known for making high quality hiking packs and get over the style issue. To me this is like asking if this framing hammer is stylish instead of asking if it will drive a 16 Penney nail in two hits. Some things are just oxymoronic and that's that.
As an engineer, I half agree and half do not. Every thing's a spectrum. For hiking and technical work, you need a technical pack. I need something to take the load off my arm and give me a free hand on a 15min walk sometimes, but not always. I'm in a suit and a technical pack would be out of place. So you slide down the spectrum a little toward something that doesn't do that quite as well as a technical pack. But it's more suited to the environment. A lighter carpenter's hammer is not as good for hammering in 16p 3-1/2" galvanized nails as a framing hammer, but a framing hammer (esp with the waffled nose) is not as good to hammer in a finishing nail. Neither is as good for trim work -- nailsets and a finishing hammer then, right? But if I need to do all three in a day, or most commonly, light framing and also general carpentry, I'm gonna go straight for a medium weight carpenter's hammer, and I'll toss a set in my bag and I'm good to go. Not as good as the framing hammer on the big nails, but it does the job. Same thing with packs.

Originally Posted by jet

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Well a hammer isn't exactly something you wear and besides, I don't think functionality and form should always be mutually exclusive. We are, after all, on a style forum and nobody is going hiking with these or loading up 30 lbs.
By the way, my school bag is hitting like 26lbs now, and I'm packing very light in a nylon messenger. I will hit thirty easy.

Originally Posted by Crane's

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Actually you're missing the other element when it comes to designing something. That element is fit as in fit for an intended purpose. As far as load weights are concerned a poster in this thread weighed up their stuff and it was 26 pounds or so. My guess would be that a typical load would weigh between 20 and 30 pounds given the information offered in this thread. As I said before most of the "style" driven packs in this thread are not designed for this type of load. Neither are their harnesses which is far more important. The harness is what will either make you or break you physically. I don't concern myself with whether or not something is quote stylish when my body is at stake. The only real concern should be whether it is fit for the intended purpose and has the correct form for the intended purpose. If it does then it will perform well for the intended purpose. Screw up fitness and form and you can forget about functionality.
I think the disparity is about that 'intended purpose' For most of the people here the intended purpose is much lower level, and probably not in the weight class we're talking. For me, anything that gets the load on two shoulders instead of one is going to help me out and be way better than walking freaking lopsided all the time. I do agree that I could probably destroy a lot of these packs with the weight I intend. BTW, your Filson there was the frontrunner in my list for quite some time.

Originally Posted by Arethusa

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Yeah, who gives a **** about deceptive advertising practices?
Yeah, point to the deceptive part. Go to their website, find a page where they are hiding that the bags are made in Mexico and link it. Do it. The guy's uses the title 'El Presidente,' you know, which really makes me think the bags are made on Savile Row, or maybe Naples. ~ H

Originally Posted by Huntsman

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I thought the cost was mostly due to the leather? Some of the belts touted on SF made of that type of leather -- the vaunted 'bridle' leather, go for over a hundred bucks, so here's a bag with two whole belts on it plus a lot more leather that's 4-5 hundred. I'm surprised it's that low. Also, I don't see how they go to pains to conceal that the bags are made in Mexico -- it's like in all their literature! Almost every page and in their 'about me' and FAQs?! What are you going on about? I think the Christian thing is just really getting up your nose. I get the feeling that they treat their people well, and if so, then I am more than happy to pay more. That feels honest -- I much prefer expensive artisanal work than products made by alienated labor. No, I haven't gone to their works to see it, but I hope they're not lying. They may be. I'm not inclined to think so. As for the Christian thing, well, I don't think its all that bad, and it's really more of a God thing than a Christian thing. So they send some scriptures with their bags -- damn, man, that's like telling yall to go and kill the heathen! There are Christians and there are Christians, but by and by most Christians are less apt to screw you over for profit than anyone else. de Tocqueville thought that religion was the only thing keeping the American Way from becoming mindlessly self-centered and exploitative beyond conception, the check on the invisible hand. As far as the astroturfing, what, you mean they were spamming SF? I am not happy about that -- when?

Originally Posted by Huntsman

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Yeah, point to the deceptive part. Go to their website, find a page where they are hiding that the bags are made in Mexico and link it. Do it. The guy's uses the title 'El Presidente,' you know, which really makes me think the bags are made on Savile Row, or maybe Naples.
You're really missing the point. The Christianity might be mildly annoying (yeah, I don't like shallow proselytizers, and I don't apologise for that) on its own. Combined with the astroturfing, it gets close to unforgivable. Sarcastic ad copy can be funny. It can also just be a cover for ****** customer service and deceptive advertising, which it was for quite some time. (Maybe it isn't anymore. I really have no idea.) They used to be a lot more aggressive with hiding the made in Mexico thing, and largely as a result of bad reviews and complaints on forums (including this one), the website's more open about it now. Evidence of astroturfing is everywhere, though, including here. Just search for saddleback anywhere in this forum and you'll find low postcount people showing up to sing their praises; google any blog or forum that mentioned saddleback in the past two years, and you'll find even more of that. The fact that the company never owned up to this bullshit and has never been open about communication is not exactly promising.

Originally Posted by Huntsman

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By the way, my school bag is hitting like 26lbs now, and I'm packing very light in a nylon messenger. I will hit thirty easy.
Saddleback bags could be made by George Washington from the body and blood of Jesus Christ and they'd still be bad idea at that weight. The smallest size briefcase is 7 pounds unloaded. Get a TAD Gear bag or a Kifaru without webbing or something. Every review I've read of the Saddleback briefcases says that the backpack feature is more of an afterthought than something to count on.

Originally Posted by Arethusa

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You're really missing the point. The Christianity might be mildly annoying (yeah, I don't like shallow proselytizers, and I don't apologise for that) on its own. Combined with the astroturfing, it gets close to unforgivable.
In other words, you're calling them hypocrites for being goody-two-shoes but also spammers? Have I got the point now?

Originally Posted by Arethusa

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Sarcastic ad copy can be funny. It can also just be a cover for ****** customer service and deceptive advertising, which it was for quite some time. (Maybe it isn't anymore. I really have no idea.) They used to be a lot more aggressive with hiding the made in Mexico thing, and largely as a result of bad reviews and complaints on forums (including this one), the website's more open about it now. Evidence of astroturfing is everywhere, though, including here. Just search for saddleback anywhere in this forum and you'll find low postcount people showing up to sing their praises; google any blog or forum that mentioned saddleback in the past two years, and you'll find even more of that. The fact that the company never owned up to this bullshit and has never been open about communication is not exactly promising.
1) "They used to be a lot more aggressive with hiding the made in Mexico thing." I gotta call BS on this. Completely. I hit up the Wayback machine, and Wayback indicates their site went live 12/29/05. Pulled that page, and while the 'about me' link on the home page didn't work, it did from the 'products' page, where their 'story' indicated the bags were made in Mexico. At the bottom of the products page was another link to their 'Story' posted prominently on the page in a way that it is obvious they want you to read it, and again, there's no deception about the bags being made in Mexico. They say it. I also checked pages in '06 and '07. Same deal. So please explain. 2) "Just search for saddleback anywhere in this forum and you'll find low postcount people showing up to sing their praises" Search: "saddleback leather" site:http://www.styleforum.net I read the first two pages of threads Google linked. I found one questionable post from some woman under ssm501 or something. Couldn't call it spam, per se. I have one single post at a forum many here post at defending an establishment I love from criticism I felt unjustified. So while they may have spamed, I don't see it. I'm sure you can find some. Maybe they had an episode and aren't doing it now. Dunno. I did find our own Crane's giving a positive review, and skalgore, and other prominent Sfers, though. I did see neg reviews, too. Same as any other product. 3) As for their sarcastic ad copy: Maybe it's just their schtick. A lot of people like it: http://www.benshoemate.com/taxonomy/tags/tech/email/ All of my emails to them, (three since Friday) have been answered bloody fast, even on Sunday, and very courteously. Yes, with the schtick, sure, but that's their schtick. Doesn't mean it's deceptive or wrong somehow. In fact they seem so very upfront -- they linked me some reviews that were not glowingly positive and pointed out negatives because she thought the pictures there would really best answer my questions. And they put no spin on the negative comments. Just linked. And they knew I was buying a second on eBay.

Originally Posted by Arethusa

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Saddleback bags could be made by George Washington from the body and blood of Jesus Christ and they'd still be bad idea at that weight. The smallest size briefcase is 7 pounds unloaded. Get a TAD Gear bag or a Kifaru without webbing or something. Every review I've read of the Saddleback briefcases says that the backpack feature is more of an afterthought than something to count on.
These next two paragraphs are just personal preference, which can be a fit subject for debate, but really have no bearing on the issues, which are above. Well, I've been carrying a metal briefcase. I'm used to weight. The TAD you posted as well as the Kifaru are just not going to work with a suit. They might work for me in casual mode, jeans, safari jacket, etc, but the Saddleback seems like it will work very well for me in both, in a way my beloved Zero Halliburton couldn't. That TAD and a lot of other bags posted here would have been perfect on the odd days in undergrad when I didn't shave for a few days and wore my grandfather's service M-65, but these days, not so much. My casual is way more casual sporting wear, bordering on riding/English (Crane's, Filson, Orvis or Holland's) than military/surplus or minimalistic streetwarey and Raf. And anyway, I really don't like the idea of a backpack. I posted earlier that something that could convert from Messenger to a Backpack would be perfect -- not looking for a dedicated pack. If it can do-all it can't do-all perfectly. Heck, I used to carry a nylon shoulder strap in my zero and if I really had to hoof it or just plain got tired I's run that through the handle and carry it as a messenger. Looked stupid, I'm sure, but it did what I needed once in a while. I hope this works reasonably well as a backpack two - three times a week. If it works at least that well I'll be fine with it, from a functional perspective. ~ H

Huntsman,

I've called Saddleback the Filson of leather bags. The quality of material is top notch and the guarantee is gold not to mention their pricing is very reasonable. Their customer service is good too. I have no doubt that my Saddleback stuff will last a long long time no matter what I drag them through just like my Filson stuff.

RE: Trains and backpacks

Please, if you start taking the train and walking, please do me (and everyone else) a huge favor:

Take off your bag when you get on the train and carry it in your hand. If you have a huge, 30 pound backpack on your back, you can actually swing that around when you turn with a surprisingly amount of force, hitting people smaller than your (or seated) right in the face) and not even know it. Or figure out a way to keep it in *front* of you. This is one reason I prefer messenger bags over backpacks in that when I board a bus, I can just swing it to the front and avoid plastering people with it. Then again, I've also had extensive collarbone surgery and backpack straps aggravate the hell out of it, so I either go one strap or go without.

Just to chime in, i have had a large briefcase from Saddleback for almost a year now, and i have no complaints. I threw out the mini-scriptures that came in the false bottom and never gave them a second thought. I also use the the bag as a backpack pretty frequently and find it quite comfortable. The trick for me was getting the shoulder strap to the right length. Once i shortened it i had no problems and have walked relatively long distances with heavy loads without feeling any discomfort. I have friends and family with some of their products as well and have heard nothing but positive things. The customer service i received via email and phone was helpful and professional all the way through. It is also of note that i purchased a "cosmetic second" at a vastly reduced price, the only issue being some slight puckering on the back side of the bag. I get asked about the bag all the time and have no reservations in recommending the product to anyone who appreciates the aesthetic.

I like this one from Stussy's fall 2009 collection:

I picked up one of these last week, it's doing the job nicely.

Jansport Heritage Hoss.

the Hoss looks nice. how big is it? i've been thinking about getting the Ski Bag in black... http://www.paragonsports.com/webapp/...0051&langId=-1 what do you guys think of this?

Originally Posted by enigma7

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the Hoss looks nice. how big is it? i've been thinking about getting the Ski Bag in black... http://www.paragonsports.com/webapp/...0051&langId=-1

what do you guys think of this?

43 x 34 x 22cm / 25 L

Not sure if you'll be able to fit all your stuff in one of this but check out the BB107 tri-carry from Briggs & Riley. I ordered one of them as I travel frequently and need the versatility (allows me to drink coffee and munch a BEC English muffin while walking). As for quality, I don't think you'll find better stuff than Briggs & Riley. And at the clearance price of $110, I think it is a bargain. Here's a review with more details:

http://onebagger.squarespace.com/blo...n-bag-man.html