Denim 101 for Men's Clothing

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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I think sho'nuff is implying that it is difficult to buy the 1 pair of top-line repro jeans which are perfect for you right off the bat, when you know almost nothing about them in general.

Typically, the pattern goes something like this:
Guy wants stylish jeans.
Balks at the $300 repro price. "wtf? forget that. I'd rather buy another pair of brown wingtips"
Buys APC, Cheap Monday, or Naked Famous instead for $150.
3 months later, he buys $300 repro jeans.
I think this pattern is fine, it's basically what I did.

yes. you nailed it perfectly.



Tarmac.
the Denim Ambassador to Men's Clothing

I believe the search begins and ends with APC New Standards.

I was recently into the higher end denim phase also.

I read really hard in the Streetwear section, looked at a lot of pictures, and end up buying the Ironheart 634S.

Search over. Very happy. This pair will probably last me forever as I wear it only on weekends, so about 5 hours a week.

What is unclear to me so far is why e.g., APC New Standards > Levi's or Gap.

If you asked me what differentiated my RLBL trousers from my Banana Republic trousers, I could point out how the differences in fabric, cut, and construction mattered. I am guessing APCs use superior yarn and dye, and that perhaps their stitching is superior as well. Are there differences in cut that I should be aware of, also?

IOW, does BlueMagic dislike Binge and Bmulford's Luckys because of the cut? Or is that he thinks the other details (fabric and construction) aren't up-to-par, and another brand would give them more bang-for-the-buck.

For jeans the real difference-maker is the cut. Denim fabric in itself is not that different from $15 wal mart jeans and $200 gap premium. They are both 100% cotton, probably equally tough and could vary between 11 oz or 14 oz, and the heavier weight would NOT necessarily be the expensive one.

APC New Standards made their name from their cut. They are straight leg, narrow (7.5 inch or thereabout), and the fit works very well for slim people and even some fatties. The fact that they typically came in 34 or 36 length (voila stacking), raw (great for fade-whores), and selvage (great for detail-whores) at a $140 price point, which is cheaper than LVC, made them popular.

Originally Posted by triniboy27

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I believe the search begins and ends with APC New Standards.

The sizing on APCs is a little tricky and I doubt a new-to-raw guy would want to deal with the ball-busting early weeks. I think the big selling point was the reasonable price, but now there are plenty of decent alternatives: Naked & Famous at 25% off are a great deal and Lee keeps the 101Z at about $90.

Of all the denim I have the APCs were the first to be set free.

lefty

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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For jeans the real difference-maker is the cut. Denim fabric in itself is not that different from $15 wal mart jeans and $200 gap premium. They are both 100% cotton, probably equally tough and could vary between 11 oz or 14 oz, and the heavier weight would necessarily be the expensive one.

APC New Standards made their name from their cut. They are straight leg, narrow (7.5 inch or thereabout), and the fit works very well for slim people and even some fatties. The fact that they typically came in 34 or 36 length (voila stacking), raw (great for fade-whores), and selvage (great for detail-whores) at a $140 price point, which is cheaper than LVC, made them popular.

Thanks. This is helpful.

Originally Posted by lefty

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The sizing on APCs is a little tricky and I doubt a new-to-raw guy would want to deal with the ball-busting early weeks. I think the big selling point was the reasonable price, but now there are plenty of decent alternatives: Naked & Famous at 25% off are a great deal and Lee keeps the 101Z at about $90.

Of all the denim I have the APCs were the first to be set free.

lefty

APCs new standards I had for a few yrs are the only pair of blue jeans I still have...

Originally Posted by Fuuma

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APCs new standards I had for a few yrs are the only pair of blue jeans I still have...

To each their own.

lefty

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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I think sho'nuff is implying that it is difficult to buy the 1 pair of top-line repro jeans which are perfect for you right off the bat, when you know almost nothing about them in general. Typically, the pattern goes something like this: Guy wants stylish jeans. Balks at the $300 repro price. "wtf? forget that. I'd rather buy another pair of brown wingtips" Buys APC, Cheap Monday, or Naked Famous instead for $150. 3 months later, he buys $300 repro jeans. I think this pattern is fine, it's basically what I did.
Or you can stick with RRL or APC forever, as I plan to do.

Originally Posted by kaxixi

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IOW, does BlueMagic dislike Binge and Bmulford's Luckys because of the cut? Or is that he thinks the other details (fabric and construction) aren't up-to-par, and another brand would give them more bang-for-the-buck.
I would say mostly the cut, but also other factors. The aesthetics of higher-end denim (not necessarily APCs) would complement Binge and Bmulford more than the Lucky's they are wearing. It just looks off to me, and I do think its my eyes and aesthetic sense speaking, not my love of denim. Heck, they could even try RL Black Label, Hermes, or Dior denim (of those, probably the Diors) if they don't want "denim-head" denim. Any of those would be just as much of an upgrade, and probably more, than going from AE to Alden, or whatever the appropriate analogy. It doesn't make sense to say they are "just jeans."

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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I think sho'nuff is implying that it is difficult to buy the 1 pair of top-line repro jeans which are perfect for you right off the bat, when you know almost nothing about them in general.

Typically, the pattern goes something like this:
Guy wants stylish jeans.
Balks at the $300 repro price. "wtf? forget that. I'd rather buy another pair of brown wingtips"
Buys APC, Cheap Monday, or Naked Famous instead for $150.
3 months later, he buys $300 repro jeans.

I think this pattern is fine, it's basically what I did.

ROFL. This is almost exactly what I did as well.. cheap-ass dr denims, followed by nudies, and now I have finally found true love with somet. Listen to the man... read up and buy what you will eventually buy. Or waste $200 and get 1-2 pairs you probably won't wear again

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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For jeans the real difference-maker is the cut. Denim fabric in itself is not that different from $15 wal mart jeans and $200 gap premium. They are both 100% cotton, probably equally tough and could vary between 11 oz or 14 oz, and the heavier weight would NOT necessarily be the expensive one.

Actually, you suffer from a common misconception. What constitutes a good "cut" is highly subjective, although a bad cut is nearly universally recognized.

There is a very wide range in the quality of denim, and the prices vary considerably as well, from $1/yard (your Walmart variety jeans) and $20+/ounce (artisanal denim made in very small batches).

A typical denim is a 3x1 righthanded twill, though other types of twill are also used.. Irrespective of the weight, the quality of the constituent cotton used, the care taken in the carding of the cotton fibers to make the yarn, the care taken in spinning the yarn, and the care taken in the weaving of the yarn into denim, all help to separate a good denim from a bad. Equally important is the dye used and the dyeing technique used. Rope and hank dyeing of the weft (the blue) yarn will produce different effects in the visual effect of the denim produced. I won't go into more detail here.

Next, the quality of the hardware used, the grade of the thread used, and the grade of stitching (going from a 1/4" stitch to a 1/8" stitch, for example, makes a piece significantly more expensive to make), as well as the QC/QA standards used, all contribute to the cost of making a pair of really premium jeans.

For the price, RRL (a division of the Ralph Lauren empire) is hard to beat. It is Ralph Lauren's baby, by all accounts, and not really a money maker. Certainly, the margins are very low on the goods. The cuts are also typically agreed upon to be "good".

Any advice for somebody like me?

I've got a 33-34 waist (usually about 34 in the inseam) but pretty big legs. Particularly large outer quads is what I was recently told by a wrestler friend who would probably know such things (and would explain why I always feel like stuff in my pockets creates a lot of bulk). ****** is probably a little big too (though it could just be that the rest of my legs pull the jeans to ******).

I picked up a pair of American Eagle (yeah, I know, got them for $19) "straight" jeans and I think they work ok but I get a lot of comments on the tightness. Its not tightness at the cuff (I take issue with more tapered "skinny" jeans) but rather the upper leg that seems to be an issue. I like wearing them as long as it is paired with one of my tightest tops (sized down dress shirt or something) but otherwise I feel the thigh area looks too tight compared to everything else.

Any recommendations on what I could try? I'm not looking toward the really pricey stuff (like to stick under 100...probably under 75 after any discounts) but just something that would fit my legs a little better and still look good.

*edit* also, I have a pair of levis 559 on right now and I don't think I have ever liked how they fit and can't quite put a finger on why (they feel fine...just look funny)

Originally Posted by gshen

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ROFL. This is almost exactly what I did as well.. cheap-ass dr denims, followed by nudies, and now I have finally found true love with somet

Originally Posted by LA Guy

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For the price, RRL (a division of the Ralph Lauren empire) is hard to beat.

I bypassed the slum to half-way house denim to true-love denim by buying RRL's for cheap on the B&S. I love them.

I'll still probably succumb to Somet 003s in 2009, after the RRLs start fading away from dark denim.