Who has a worse reputation? Doctors vs Lawyers...

Originally Posted by HORNS

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Really? I mean, really??
Yes, really. US system has too much reliance on tests. I don't know about all specialties. I mean, maybe the US is better at brain surgery or some such but overall, I think other countries are better/equal in the big picture. The US system may just have more toys to play with; not necessarily better docs/training. There is also more fair competition in countries like the UK/Canada where school isn't so expensive and more people have the opportunity to go so it's not just those who can afford it. I'm talking about getting a post-secondary degree here which is the route you need to go to even get into medical school. Not sure about Japan in this case because I've heard (although I don't know for sure) that it can be about money/connections there.

New doctors will not feel that need to crank up that patient volume to make up for the decrease in reimbursement.

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How on earth did you arrive at that? Unless medicine becomes socialized where the docs are on a salary, the current system rewards volume. I'll tell you a story. My friend wanted to do a rotation in Pediatric Infectious Disease. She told me that Dr G. joked with her not to because then "he'd have to work" in order to teach her. He is salaried and he told her (keep in mind I'm getting this second hand) that if he sees one patient or five, he gets paid the same. Now of course that's an exaggeration because if he only sees one patient a day, the hospital wouldn't renew his contract, but he has no incentive to go above and beyond. Under the current system, docs are almost forced to see too many patients in a day because of reimbursement per patient.

If they do, there's a lack of due diligence on their part and probably should have chosen another profession.

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Get real if you think that's how the world works. Doctors simply (again, under the current system) cannot spend as much time with their patients as they might like to unless they've taken a "vow of poverty" as one radiologist told me I had when I said I wanted to go into FP or IM. "Customer service" as you put it is going nowhere but down. I don't like it but that's what's going to happen. It's not going to get better with the new generation of doctors and I'm honestly interested in why you think this is going to be the case.

Hmmm, this is a tough one. I'll give the edge to doctors as the ones with the worse rep. Your lawyer may overlook something in your file and it ends up costing you money or time served. A doctor may overlook something in your file and it ends up costing you your life.

Originally Posted by Mauby

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Hmmm, this is a tough one. I'll give the edge to doctors as the ones with the worse rep. Your lawyer may overlook something in your file and it ends up costing you money or time served. A doctor may overlook something in your file and it ends up costing you your life.

WTF does that have to do with reputation?

Originally Posted by Jumbie

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Yes, really. US system has too much reliance on tests. I don't know about all specialties. I mean, maybe the US is better at brain surgery or some such but overall, I think other countries are better/equal in the big picture. The US system may just have more toys to play with; not necessarily better docs/training.

There is also more fair competition in countries like the UK/Canada where school isn't so expensive and more people have the opportunity to go so it's not just those who can afford it. I'm talking about getting a post-secondary degree here which is the route you need to go to even get into medical school. Not sure about Japan in this case because I've heard (although I don't know for sure) that it can be about money/connections there.



How on earth did you arrive at that? Unless medicine becomes socialized where the docs are on a salary, the current system rewards volume.

I'll tell you a story. My friend wanted to do a rotation in Pediatric Infectious Disease. She told me that Dr G. joked with her not to because then "he'd have to work" in order to teach her. He is salaried and he told her (keep in mind I'm getting this second hand) that if he sees one patient or five, he gets paid the same. Now of course that's an exaggeration because if he only sees one patient a day, the hospital wouldn't renew his contract, but he has no incentive to go above and beyond. Under the current system, docs are almost forced to see too many patients in a day because of reimbursement per patient.



Get real if you think that's how the world works. Doctors simply (again, under the current system) cannot spend as much time with their patients as they might like to unless they've taken a "vow of poverty" as one radiologist told me I had when I said I wanted to go into FP or IM. "Customer service" as you put it is going nowhere but down. I don't like it but that's what's going to happen. It's not going to get better with the new generation of doctors and I'm honestly interested in why you think this is going to be the case.

I've already expressed my theory why. I certainly don't think satisfaction or care will improve under a universal healtcare system. These systems work to a degree in other countries but I have reservations on how it would work here in the U.S. But good luck with your training - your perception of healthcare, both present and future, seems too cynical in my eyes. But I hope for everyone involved that you are wrong and I am right!

I saw this huge billboard in Brooklyn today. WTF is wrong with these people.

Originally Posted by Mauby

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Hmmm, this is a tough one. I'll give the edge to doctors as the ones with the most responsibility. Your lawyer may overlook something in your file and it ends up costing you money or time served. A doctor may overlook something in your file and it ends up costing you your life.

Fixed.

Originally Posted by HORNS

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I've already expressed my theory why.
Unless I missed something, I don't believe you did. "Sure there is! Patients can wait in the waiting room - that issue can be minimized if they feel like the wait is worth it. That disproportionality between the wait and the time spent with the doctor/feeling like you're being treated is a huge factor in patient dissatisfaction. New doctors will not feel that need to crank up that patient volume to make up for the decrease in reimbursement. If they do, there's a lack of due diligence on their part and probably should have chosen another profession." You said that they won't feel the need to crank up the volume with no reasoning behind this theory as far as I can tell. Why do you think wait times are suddenly going to decrease? I did a Peds Neuro rotation. The doc I was following told patients (and remarked to me more than once) that he didn't blame them for being upset after waiting many hours to see him only to have a few minutes of his time. This was at a community hospital. Maybe it's different in more wealthy areas.

I certainly don't think satisfaction or care will improve under a universal healtcare system.

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Neither do I.

These systems work to a degree in other countries but I have reservations on how it would work here in the U.S.

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Only if taxes are increased. Maybe... Of course, no one wants that.

But I hope for everyone involved that you are wrong and I am right!

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Believe it or not, I hope so too. I don't like the current system. There is much room for improvement.

Originally Posted by michaeljkrell

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...but my general view of doctors has definitely disintegrated in the last couple years to a point very similar to lawyers. Thoughts??
Yeah, here's a thought: you can think again the next time you want free medical advice from me via PM. And here I thought we were friends...

Originally Posted by michaeljkrell

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According to my sister, social skills and doctor-patient relationship are taken into account (grade wise) much more than they used to be.
Definitely although not exactly directly. When doing clinical histories it definitely pays to be attentive and being nice can definitely give you a piece of the puzzle.

Originally Posted by HORNS

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Really? I mean, really??
Definitely. The best specialized doctors in the world are the ones who deal with the most pathologies. Japan (and Costa Rica) has the highest incidences of stomach cancer per capita in the world so it's no surprise that they're leading the field in research and treatment. I'll put it this way: if you suddenly became infected with a specific parasite would you go running to the doctor who's read about it and happens to have a US passport or the doctor who has been treating it on a regular basis for years?

Originally Posted by michaeljkrell

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I have met some very kind hearted doctors and lawyers (my grandpa was a judge, my sister is in her third year of med school and of course Whodini), but my general view of doctors has definitely disintegrated in the last couple years to a point very similar to lawyers.

Thoughts??

Originally Posted by whodini

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Yeah, here's a thought: you can think again the next time you want free medical advice from me via PM. And here I thought we were friends...

Fixed

The doctor is in. Again.

Originally Posted by Dmax

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I saw this huge billboard in Brooklyn today. WTF is wrong with these people.

There are much nastier bill boards by med mal guys. In Florida, this real slime ball law firm that I will not name, started putting big, graphic, gorey pictures of pressure uclers out side of nursing homes and rehab hospitals (like Health South) to get people to try and sue. I think they have gone nation wide now. Another law firm, coming out of I think Michigan, did similar things outside of hospitals with surgical infections.

Originally Posted by Jumbie

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Unless I missed something, I don't believe you did.

"Sure there is! Patients can wait in the waiting room - that issue can be minimized if they feel like the wait is worth it. That disproportionality between the wait and the time spent with the doctor/feeling like you're being treated is a huge factor in patient dissatisfaction. New doctors will not feel that need to crank up that patient volume to make up for the decrease in reimbursement. If they do, there's a lack of due diligence on their part and probably should have chosen another profession."

You said that they won't feel the need to crank up the volume with no reasoning behind this theory as far as I can tell. Why do you think wait times are suddenly going to decrease?

Jumbie, my reasoning is that new doctors do not have a frame of reference of the good ol' days to compare their current state of income and reimbursement. I personally believe that changes a lot of new doctor's attitudes in comparison to the ones who are in their 50's and still practicing. Doctors do need to see more patients to pay overhead, malpractice insurance, and have a quality of living that rewards to some degree the effort they have gone through to get to their position (the last one varies from one individual to the next, of course). But I honestly think that the newer physicians, as a whole but with exceptions, will have a better outlook with more optimism about their profession (not to mention the most up-to-date knowledge) than the ones who are getting ready to retire.

Oh, and wait times may not decrease, but I think the patient will feel that the wait is worth it and thus be satisfied with how their visit went. Just my opinion!

Isn't this sort of like asking whether syphillis is worse than gonorhea?

It appears as if doctors can rest easy...

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