Rubinacci visiting NYC (May 27-29)

Originally Posted by iammatt

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I ran into a guy in the London shop who asked for all of his to be made in Milan because the Naples made ones were too imperfect for him.

I don't get why someone wanting a leaner, cleaner cut would choose Rubinacci to begin with.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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I don't get why someone wanting a leaner, cleaner cut would choose Rubinacci to begin with.
I believe he said that he wanted to give them a try, and while he was thrilled with the service, he wanted something a little different, so Mariano suggested having them made in Milan. He seemed very happy with the change.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Well, in my own experience, the initial measurements were taken rather casually. The magic happened at the fitting stage.

I'd just make sure to ask Luca if your jacket/suit will be made in Naples or Milan.

Yea - it's not a big deal at all since Mariano even measured me for pants the last time I saw him.

I doubt they'd change Milan once they've already established a pattern for you in Naples.

Originally Posted by Panzeraxe II

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Is Rubinacci willing to go through with a basted + a couple of addt. Fittings on these US trips?

Measurements + 2 fittings. I think they'd like to get it done with 1 rather than 2 fittings but they will do a second one.

After going through a few rounds, I think that the ideal is:

- First commission, or change in button stance (mainly, SB vs. DB): baste fitting, forward fitting and a refitting after wear.

- Subsequent fittings: forward fitting and refitting after wear.

Some tailors view the baste fitting as useless, and if they're good, that can be true.

- B

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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Some tailors view the baste fitting as useless, and if they're good, that can be true.

- B

No, I would say some don't know how to work a basted fitting. Don't know how to put a basted jacket on a client or work with one. Basted requires a sharper, experienced eye.

Clients are different as well. Some I don't give a fitting, straight to finish, no problems, some I would never think to make a jacket without a basted fitting no matter how many suits I've made him. I like the basted stage because you get to see how the cloth reacts. Some cloths grow, some shrink but it gets worked out before the finishing. I would rather skip the forward stage than the basted try-on. Guess I'm not that good.

Originally Posted by Despos

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No, I would say some don't know how to work a basted fitting. Don't know how to put a basted jacket on a client or work with one. Basted requires a sharper, experienced eye.

Clients are different as well. Some I don't give a fitting, straight to finish, no problems, some I would never think to make a jacket without a basted fitting no matter how many suits I've made him. I like the basted stage because you get to see how the cloth reacts. Some cloths grow, some shrink but it gets worked out before the finishing. I would rather skip the forward stage than the basted try-on. Guess I'm not that good.

Admit it: you want me as a customer.

- B

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Unfortunately, no. I'm flying in and leaving the same day. In fact, I should have pointed out that I won't be in the city until ~2pm or so on the 28th.

Ahhh I see, hit it & quit it.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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After going through a few rounds, I think that the ideal is:

- First commission, or change in button stance (mainly, SB vs. DB): baste fitting, forward fitting and a refitting after wear.

- Subsequent fittings: forward fitting and refitting after wear.

Some tailors view the baste fitting as useless, and if they're good, that can be true.

- B

Originally Posted by Despos

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No, I would say some don't know how to work a basted fitting. Don't know how to put a basted jacket on a client or work with one. Basted requires a sharper, experienced eye.

Clients are different as well. Some I don't give a fitting, straight to finish, no problems, some I would never think to make a jacket without a basted fitting no matter how many suits I've made him. I like the basted stage because you get to see how the cloth reacts. Some cloths grow, some shrink but it gets worked out before the finishing. I would rather skip the forward stage than the basted try-on. Guess I'm not that good.

Despos:

Would you mind elaborating. I think this is very interesting. Somewhere, I got the idea that the huge overseas trade made Savile Row tailors develop a large emphasis on careful cutting technique and pattern drafting to cut down on the number of required fittings. This could be true. Obviously, it could also be a lot of bunk, designed to justify a practice that is forced on them by, in the best case, their customers' distance and, in the worst case, their own cash flow needs.

On the other hand, it would not surprise me if tailors who use bastes can come to rely on them to be a little less careful or precise in their drafting and cutting. I think I have experienced this myself.

The point you make about using the baste to deal with things that can't be anticipated at the drafting stage is therefore very interesting. Please explain more. What do you mean, exactly? How do you apply your own experience to things you see at a baste?

I'm no expert but I remain suspicious of tailors who try and skip the basted fitting. My understanding is that the primary purpose of the basted fitting is to ensure that the balance of the coat is right. No matter how carefully the cutter works, he / she can only check the balance of the coat on the client at the basted stage.

Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley

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I'm no expert but I remain suspicious of tailors who try and skip the basted fitting. My understanding is that the primary purpose of the basted fitting is to ensure that the balance of the coat is right. No matter how carefully the cutter works, he / she can only check the balance of the coat on the client at the basted stage.

While this, too, is plausible, I would love to hear from tailors who practice "straight to forward" to understand it.

While I have experienced inconsistency in the past from tailors who went straight to forward, balance was rarely the problem. And I am not sure whether a baste fitting early in the process would have affected the final outcome.

Originally Posted by dopey

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While this, too, is plausible, I would love to hear from tailors who practice "straight to forward" to understand it.

Think of it what you will, but here's Thomas Mahon's discussion of this, from the straight to forward bias, including an interesting quotation that he attributes to Halberry.

- B

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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Think of it what you will, but here's Thomas Mahon's discussion of this, from the straight to forward bias, including an interesting quotation that he attributes to Halberry. - B
I may be making this up, but my recollection, perhaps from Walker's book, is that this attitude developed when English tailors began traveling extensively, to Europe, but more importantly, by ship to the U.S. Getting it exact on the first go was a matter of pride and an economic necessity. But as I said above, it may also be self-serving nonsense.

Well, just for an added data point, on my first commision from my bespoke tailor, who travels to the US from England, the first fitting had elements of a baste fitting, and also elements of a forward fitting. This happened again in my most recent commision with a coat that was double-breasted.

I interpret this to mean that even the guys who go straight to forward will elect, if they think it useful, to put things on the body from an earlier stage of tailoring. In Tom's discussion, he does say that he will start with a baste fitting for clients who are a "difficult" fit.

- B

mafoofan or any others-

This is a little bit of an aside, but do you know if the Rubinacci store in London will fit you for a bespoke coat or a suit? I would presumably have to wait for one of the Rubinaccis to visit... I moved to the UK recently and was curious as I saw that they had a store in London. That would be much closer to me than a flight to Naples from Scotland.

Originally Posted by dopey

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Despos:

Would you mind elaborating.

The point you make about using the baste to deal with things that can't be anticipated at the drafting stage is therefore very interesting. Please explain more. What do you mean, exactly? How do you apply your own experience to things you see at a baste?

The thing about tailoring is that every tailor comes to his own conclusions concerning methods and processes. I remember asking 2 tailors how they would shape a jacket and received 2 opposite replies with both tailors saying they would never do the exact thing the other tailor was saying to do. I admired the result of each tailors method and concluded they were both correct. I had to form my own conclusion as to how I would shape a jacket, what would work for me and my methods. ( I combined both their ideas and declared myself the winner) Tailors do the same regarding basted try-ons or forward fittings.

My conclusion; no matter how good the pattern or the cutting, it is what happens to the cloth after cutting that matters. I can cut three similar cloths, using the same pattern for one individual and get different fitting jackets. The way the cloth is put on the canvass, responds to pressing and shaping with an iron, is handled by the coat maker will cause the cloth to deviate from the original cutting. Even the way the cloth drapes over the clients body due to cloth weight or cloth structure will be cause for different adjustments. This led me to develop stringent methods to control the cloth during the making of a garment to gain consistency which I learned early on to be something clients wanted and valued. The best place for me to discover and control this was from the basted fitting stage. I also had to mature as a fitter how to fit a basted jacket, learn what to look for and know how the jacket would change during the making. I know some tailors who look at a basted try-on and are "lost" I think those that favor a forward fitting would say they see the jacket and issues more clearly at that stage. Earlier this month I fitted 2 jackets on a client. One needed the back raised, the other did not. This was easy to do after the basted fitting and both jackets fit the same even though one needed the adjustment. From a forward fitting I would have to open the back, the lining, etc.

Regarding Halberry's comments about inlays or outlets. Over the last couple years while visiting other tailors ( very successfull tailors and more experienced than I ) I've seen them using outlets in places I had not seen and I have begun to add extra outlets. It allows me to make adjustments without having to recut new pieces and I can adjust during the making as if I was starting anew. I llike having abundant outlets and the flexibility it allows. Two friends of mine that do not leave outlets have strong RTW experience and pride themselves on their precision. Like I said, you have to find your own way.