Andover Shop: Dingy den of scumbags

Originally Posted by gehrig

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mr brady, i pretty much agree with all the recent posts and im not conding the behavior of the staff. also, just to clarify, as one of the other posters brought up earlier, the request, as presented by nukeme in the original post, was merely for a tape measure - the reason for its use is left out of quotation marks. not an outlandish request in a men's clothing store.

that said, remember, this is just a message board post, and a message board post written by a Pocket Square Measurer who referred to the establishment as a "den of scumbags." personally, those things make me doubt the reliability of our narrator. maybe i am in the minority here, but i have never seen, or heard, of people getting kicked out of men's clothing stores, and im not talking about two totally wasted guys who stumbled in. i mean im picturing walking into that charvet alcove in b.goodman and seeing the old man who works there holding a totally sober customer by the arm saying 'sir, kindly leave the premises' and it's just a completely fantastical scenario to me.

So... I am making this up? Are you for real? Who would make this stuff up?

For the record, their shop is dingy, it is about the size of the average den (maybe smaller), and the crusty old men who work there treated me like dirt for no reason so they are scumbags in my book. What should have I titled my post, "Andover Shop: misunderstood curmudgeons?" I was polite, I was respectful (even after their verbal abuse), I asked some questions and ended up getting loudly berated for it. In what possible way is that acceptable? I walked out of that place feeling like I had been slapped across the face. Who wouldn't be angry after an experience like that?

By the way, pocket squares come in all kinds of sizes. Kent Wang's basic is about 14 inches, I think. I see them at Nordstrom and Neimans at about 11 or 12 inches all the time. I need mine to be about 17 inches at least or they disappear in my coat pocket. I know, what a horrible crime wanting to get the right size before I buy something. I guess Pocket Square Measurer could be my official super villain name. What do you do, walk in to a store, buy something and leave hoping it fits? How's that working out for you?

Originally Posted by NukeMeSlowly

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So... I am making this up? Are you for real? Who would make this stuff up? For the record, their shop is dingy, it is about the size of the average den (maybe smaller), and the crusty old men who work there treated me like dirt for no reason so they are scumbags in my book. What should have I titled my post, "Andover Shop: misunderstood curmudgeons?" I was polite, I was respectful (even after their verbal abuse), I asked some questions and ended up getting loudly berated for it. In what possible way is that acceptable? I walked out of that place feeling like I had been slapped across the face. Who wouldn't be angry after an experience like that? By the way, pocket squares come in all kinds of sizes. Kent Wang's basic is about 14 inches, I think. I see them at Nordstrom and Neimans at about 11 or 12 inches all the time. I need mine to be about 17 inches at least or they disappear in my coat pocket. I know, what a horrible crime wanting to get the right size before I buy something. I guess Pocket Square Measurer could be my official super villain name. What do you do, walk in to a store, buy something and leave hoping it fits? How's that working out for you?
You couldn't just eyeball it? a 12" square and a 17" look different.

Originally Posted by NukeMeSlowly

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By the way, pocket squares come in all kinds of sizes. Kent Wang's basic is about 14 inches, I think. I see them at Nordstrom and Neimans at about 11 or 12 inches all the time. I need mine to be about 17 inches at least or they disappear in my coat pocket. I know, what a horrible crime wanting to get the right size before I buy something. I guess Pocket Square Measurer could be my official super villain name. What do you do, walk in to a store, buy something and leave hoping it fits? How's that working out for you?
I'm not really feeling this. I can easily tell if a pocket square is too large or too small. 17" squares are not that hard to spot. The measuring tape suggested you wanted to avoid pocket squares that are 16.5", not 12". I've never been to Andover Shop, so I have no loyalties either way. But this makes me want to go there even more, if only to experience the Basil Fawlty treatment.

Felt as though I should chime in here. First, the OP is not the first customer to measure a pocket square in our store. I very much dislike small squares myself and if a vendor offers them smaller than 14" I will not buy them. Customers will measure ties, shirt tails, sleeve length, coat length etc. As far as I'm concerned, they can measure anything they want to, who cares. The customer is the customer! He/She is the one who rings the organ. I do everything in my power to make sure there is music playing all day long.
This whole incident surprises me because just last week I had dinner with Charlie Davidson (Owner of the Andover Shop for 50+ years) and we spoke about the things we do that make us specialty stores. Going the extra mile was key. Must have been a bad day for the old boy. We have them too!

Best regards,

Gary

The germane point is that the OP went into the store, made a request, perhaps unusual, but hardly rude, and was tossed out for his impertinence. Even if they found the request unreasonable, the sales assistants could have been polite in their refusal of the request. Honestly though, the request seems harmless. Odd, and in the eyes of anyone outside this forum, completely obsessive compulsive, but it would be difficult to construe it as offensive in any way.

Originally Posted by LA Guy

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The germane point is that the OP went into the store, made a request, perhaps unusual, but hardly rude, and was tossed out for his impertinence. Even if they found the request unreasonable, the sales assistants could have been polite in their refusal of the request. Honestly though, the request seems harmless. Odd, and in the eyes of anyone outside this forum, completely obsessive compulsive, but it would be difficult to construe it as offensive in any way.

I think we all agree with that

Originally Posted by gehrig

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what possible use could you have had in mind for the pocket square that required you to determine its exact dimensions via tape measure??? couldn't you have held it up and looked at it, or plopped it into one of the jackets in the store??? it's hard for me to imagine someone laying a pocket square down flat on a table and meticulously measuring it out when they can just look at the thing

I do not find the particular diligence of this gentleman should be a source of ridicule. I often shop with a series of tools including a gauge to determin a fabric's density.

Who knows what's going to piss off a merchant?

When consulting with designers to make my fiancee's engagement ring, I inadvertantly insulted James de Givenchy by asking if I could sketch his proposed design. He immediately swept up all the papers in front of him and told me that he's not interested in having his designs stolen and made by others. I was quite taken aback and offended by the accusation. After explaining that I merely wanted to be able to consider the design after leaving his salon, he told me that the specifics of the design would be determined by him during the manufacturing process and I would not be given a drawing until after the ring was made.

Needless to say, I decided to use someone else.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Who knows what's going to piss off a merchant?

When consulting with designers to make my fiancee's engagement ring, I inadvertantly insulted James de Givenchy by asking if I could sketch his proposed design. He immediately swept up all the papers in front of him and told me that he's not interested in having his designs stolen and made by others. I was quite taken aback and offended by the accusation. After explaining that I merely wanted to be able to consider the design after leaving his salon, he told me that the specifics of the design would be determined by him during the manufacturing process and I would not be given a drawing until after the ring was made.

Needless to say, I decided to use someone else.

I think that if fairly understandable on the designers part. I would be cautious around someone who was still "deciding" and wanted to take a custom sketch out of the office with them. Now if you put down a deposit or paid for the ring then yes you should have got a sketch to show your mother and your wife's friends and everyone; but, not before that.
I work for a jeweler now and we will show samples and pictures on line sheets during market; but, we will not send out a picture or sketch to any store after that point until the product has been launched (often 3-4 months from the order date).

Originally Posted by Connemara

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You couldn't just eyeball it? a 12" square and a 17" look different.



Maybe it's somehow more complicated than I am imagining.

Sounds like you were bothering them, and they felt they could do without your business. What a bizarre retail attitude, but it's not really surprising when you take into account the age of the company / selection of merchandise. I have a feeling the vast majority of their dollars are generated by familiar faces, not randoms walking in off the street that want to measure pocket squares.

A sad story though, treatment such as this is why many places eventually are forced to shut down shop. Hard to make money when all your old customers die and you alienate all your potential new ones.

as others have mentioned, i use my eyes, and if i wanted to see how it looked in jacket pocket, i'd stick it in one. i'll take your word on your apparent inability to do so, though. just a suggestion, but perhaps, on subsequent visits to men's clothing stores, you should bring along a pocket micrometer, or some other precise measuring tool, so that you can avoid any potential ungracious dismisals by the shop's resident scumbags. just think, if you'd had one at andover, you'd be up three nice pocket squares, and down one ungracious dismissal from a renowned men's clothing shop.

Originally Posted by SoCal2NYC

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I think that if fairly understandable on the designers part. I would be cautious around someone who was still "deciding" and wanted to take a custom sketch out of the office with them. Now if you put down a deposit or paid for the ring then yes you should have got a sketch to show your mother and your wife's friends and everyone; but, not before that.
I work for a jeweler now and we will show samples and pictures on line sheets during market; but, we will not send out a picture or sketch to any store after that point until the product has been launched (often 3-4 months from the order date).

I can't say I agree. Can you imagine paying for a bespoke suit whose precise details and features you have no control over? There was no way I was going to pay $10K+ for a mystery ring.

Reasonable or not, the reaction was unnecessary.

Originally Posted by Roland Loden of Germany

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I do not find the particular diligence of this gentleman should be a source of ridicule. I often shop with a series of tools including a gauge to determin [sic] a fabric's density.
Vaclava? Is that you?