Who has a worse reputation? Doctors vs Lawyers...

DNW · Nov 12, 2008

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Interesting thought. I think they are certainly seen as "fluff" by many people, except when their expertise helps modify a deformity, either natural or from calamity. They certainly are paid better than most physicians, but that is from the importance society places on big boobs, etc.

While in law school, I had a roommate who was in med school. He, who was on the orthopedic surgery track, and his friends viewed the cosmetic surgeons as the "jocks" of their profession; this is not unlike how we lawyers view our ambulance chasers.

Piobaire · Nov 12, 2008

Originally Posted by DarkNWorn

While in law school, I had a roommate who was in med school. He, who was on the orthopedic surgery track, and his friends viewed the cosmetic surgeons as the "jocks" of their profession; this is not unlike how we lawyers view our ambulance chasers.

Very funny.

crazyquik · Nov 12, 2008

Lawyers themselves believe doctors tend to make sympathetic witnesses/defendants before a jury.

Hence, doctors have a better public reputation than lawyers. So sayeth the lawyers

DNW · Nov 12, 2008

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Very funny.
First time I met one of these jocks during an outing with my roommate, I was called the "Devil incarnate," to which I replied "Don't **** up, asshole."

(I'm no ambulance chaser, but the affect that statement would have on him was too hard to resist.)

zarathustra · Nov 12, 2008

No one goes send me doctors guns and money...

dkzzzz · Nov 12, 2008

Public reputation is one thing.
When actual quality and competence of services are concerned I would say that lawyers in US are better trained, more motivated and more competent than doctors.

DNW · Nov 12, 2008

Originally Posted by zarathustra

No one goes send me doctors guns and money...

Stop using Google's language translator.

Piobaire · Nov 12, 2008

Originally Posted by DarkNWorn

First time I met one of these jocks during an outing with my roommate, I was called the "Devil incarnate," to which I replied "Don't **** up, asshole."

(I'm no ambulance chaser, but the affect that statement would have on him was too hard to resist.)

While I have several lawyers in my close personal circle, I don't know the lawyer world like I do the medical world (for obvious reasons). Just like in any profession, the inter-specialty talk can be quite funny. A good one is to hear a board certified vascular surgeon going off on a cardiologist. Or a dementia specialist going off on just about any other doc trying to treat.

I'd have made the same comment if I was you btw.

83glt · Nov 12, 2008

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Interesting thought. I think they are certainly seen as "fluff" by many people, except when their expertise helps modify a deformity, either natural or from calamity. They certainly are paid better than most physicians, but that is from the importance society places on big boobs, etc.

Your comments show...you are in law school.

I'm a carpenter.

HORNS · Nov 12, 2008

Originally Posted by Jumbie

Not defending the doc here because that's wrong but my opinion is that a large part of that is fear of getting sued.

I've been told many times that the best thing for a doctor to do is admit that they made a mistake. I've also been told that doctors who talk to their patients, take time to explain things, etc. actually have very little chance of being sued even when they do admit to doing something wrong or not doing something beneficial. I don't have enough faith in humanity to believe that. Part of me wants to because docs are only human and can't be expected to be perfect all the time. The ambulance chasers on TV and my interaction with people over my life lead me to think otherwise.

I don't know what I'm going to do in the future when I'm in that situation and make a mistake (it will happen at some point or the other). The good part of me will want to own up to it. The practical part of me will be scared to. I don't know you Thomas. You may have been okay with the doctor admitting he screwed up and left it at that (while looking for another doc in the future) but many people would look at that as their "big chance" to make some cash from the "rich, uncaring doctor".

Many malpractice lawsuits exist for the sole purpose of getting information. If a doctor is forthrite and simply communicates with their patients, so many things can be avoided. Hell, such behavior on the part of the doctor is mutually benificial!

crazyquik · Nov 12, 2008

Originally Posted by dkzzzz

Public reputation is one thing.
When actual quality and competence of services are concerned I would say that lawyers in US are better trained, more motivated and more competent than doctors.

The threat of being sued (by all their sharky-lawyer friends) is a big motivation.

HORNS · Nov 12, 2008

Originally Posted by dkzzzz

Public reputation is one thing.
When actual quality and competence of services are concerned I would say that lawyers in US are better trained, more motivated and more competent than doctors.

That's an interesting thought, but in what context? I say with confidence that the doctors here in the U.S. are the best in the world.

You will see this occur down the road: doctors will become better and with better customer service after the older generation - the ones who enjoyed the wealth before managed care became a factor - retire. The newer generation will only know the "world" of managed care, plus the standards are much higher to get into medicine.

Piobaire · Nov 12, 2008

Originally Posted by HORNS

Many malpractice lawsuits exist for the sole purpose of getting information. If a doctor is forthrite and simply communicates with their patients, so many things can be avoided. Hell, such behavior on the part of the doctor is mutually benificial!

I think part of this behavior, on the part of physicians, is instigated by...lawyers. Having been part of three cases that went to trial, and numerous attempts at shakedowns and a few legit ones that settled, you are always told to allow your attorneys to do that talking and/or disclosing for you. In fact, the last time I got served a doces tecum, our outside guys responded, so I have no idea what they did and did not send.

This is not to say that "old school" thinking is not to try and hide mistakes, and other such things. However, I think most of the, at least perceived hiding, and refusal to admit mistakes, etc., is prompted by fear of litigation.

Jumbie · Nov 12, 2008

Originally Posted by HORNS

That's an interesting thought, but in what context? I say with confidence that the doctors here in the U.S. are the best in the world.

Disagree. Good but not best.

I'd argue that many docs in Canada, the UK, Australia and Japan are better or, at least, equivalent.

You will see this occur down the road: doctors will become better and with better customer service after the older generation

Disagree again. Due to the model of the current system, there is no time to have better customer service.

- the ones who enjoyed the wealth before managed care became a factor - retire.

Ah, the golden days. One of the Obs at my hospital was reportedly pulling in 7 figures before. Now, I'm not sure what it is but it's nowhere close. I think average is somewhere around 250-300k before malpractice insurance of around 100k. A lot of money still but not nearly as much.

The newer generation will only know the "world" of managed care, plus the standards are much higher to get into medicine.

This is true. There are many attendings who have remarked to me that if they were to apply to the field they're in today, they wouldn't have gotten an interview. It's more competitive and there are more tests. One of my friends was remarking that her father, a doc, is a genius. From the sounds of it, he is apparently pretty intelligent but when she went on to say that he had X book memorized, I had to say "Yeah, but that book was 200 pages then. It's 700 pages today." She agreed with me. To pass USMLE Step II is 184 points today. As recently as 2001, I believe it was something like 179. Not 100% positive on that.

HORNS · Nov 12, 2008

Originally Posted by Jumbie

Disagree. Good but not best.

I'd argue that many docs in Canada, the UK, Australia and Japan are better or, at least, equivalent.

Really? I mean, really??

Originally Posted by Jumbie

Disagree again. Due to the model of the current system, there is no time to have better customer service.

Sure there is! Patients can wait in the waiting room - that issue can be minimized if they feel like the wait is worth it. That disproportionality between the wait and the time spent with the doctor/feeling like you're being treated is a huge factor in patient dissatisfaction. New doctors will not feel that need to crank up that patient volume to make up for the decrease in reimbursement. If they do, there's a lack of due diligence on their part and probably should have chosen another profession.

Who has a worse reputation? Doctors vs Lawyers...

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