Yankees Suck!!!

[PeterMetro]

"What about intentional fouls in basketball?  Or taking a knee in football?  Intentional walks are part of the game "

Exactly.  You just made my argument that the "game" is inherently flawed.  They don't have to eliminate the IBB entirely.  Maybe they should allow a team to only use it once for any single batter.  And it certainly is NOT the same as the intentional foul.  Basketball addressed this problem by making the penalty for fouling off the ball in the last two minutes really harsh.  Besides, at least the player who's fouled gets a chance to do what he's paid to do -- score.  And, in football, intentionally downing the ball is rarely used.  And not nearly as often nor in such a cowardly way as these pansy pitchers are doing with Bonds.  They walk him with no one on and two outs. And in other non-strategic situations.  Simply because they're afraid to challenge him.  It's boring.  And, every fan who has to pay to see it should ask for a refund.

I dunno - I see a lot of holes in your argument.

One - the penalty for intentional fouling is the same in the last two minutes and the preceeding 58. If you're over the limit, you go to the line. You're right - it's giving that player a chance to score. Just like putting a runner on base.

Two - Intentionally downing the ball happens in almost every football game I've seen. If the winning team has the ball at the end of the game, they'll down it. Every time.

Three - You seem to define "strategic" situations as the late innings of a close game. I'd argue that baseball managers and players are constantly strategizing - from the first pitch to the last. Two outs, no one on, and a hump like Moises Alou on deck? I'd put him on - why let up a solo jack?

Four - You say this didn't used to happen, and list old time pitchers that would never do it. But they're all old time Hall of Famers. Current pitchers like Clemens, Johnson, Martinez - they wouldn't throw an IBB either, because they're good enough to get him out. But Tomo Ohka?

Five - You seem fixated on this idea of courage. This isn't a heavyweight bout. Not all sports have to be bullfighting.

 

[4Mica]

I have two favorite teams, the Los Angeles Dodgers and anyone playing the Yankees.

 

[matadorpoeta]

i have one gripe with baseball. there isn't enough symmetry to the game. it should be 3 strikes you're out, 3 balls to get a walk. making it 4 balls for a walk doesn't make sense. there are 3 strikes, 3 outs in an inning, 9 innings, 90 feet between bases; all multiples of 3. yet for some reason, the distance between home plate and the outfield fence is completely random, 287' to the left field fence, 375' to right-center field, etc... why don't they use a multiple of three, like say 270' or 300', and have that be the distance to the fence at all parts of the outfield? other than that, i like baseball, but only during the playoffs, and only if the dodgers are playing. p.s. where's that thread where some of the guys were actually arguing that bonds was not on steroids? i'd like to know what those guys have to say now.

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

Finally, it's not like I'm the only one with this criticism of the IBB.  I've read several articles which criticized it and called for changes.  What exactly would be wrong about changing it to only one use per batter per game?  If it really is such a big and important part of strategy, then it should only be needed in strategic points in the game.  A change like this would force them to use it at those times only.  

The problem with this proposed rule is that a manager who wanted to walk a batter would simply order his pitcher to throw pitches that were just far enough off the plate to be unhittable.  The umpire would have the impossible task of divining intent.  Did the pitcher intentionally walk the batter?  Or did he just lack control?

I agree with the other posters that intentional walks are just part of the game.  Baseball has a pacing and strategy component far different than the other major team sports.

 

[countdemoney]

And if you outlaw the IBB, how do you handle the pitchout?

I miss the Whitey Herzog Cardinals. There was nothing like being at the ballpark when Vince Coleman got on base and just started messing with the pitcher. Jumping off further when he looked over, etc. It was so much more than what you saw on TV.

One of my favorite White Rat moments was some ultra long extra innings game and he was out of pitchers. He wanted to keep a lefty and righty available and so he switched them between pitching mound and outfield. And then he'd have the real outfielder switch to right or left field depending on who was at the plate. Amazing management in the NL game.

But I digress. The Yankees are ending their current run, but how can you not admire the Hammer of God? Or Jeter. I was at the Oakland game when he did the flip.

 

[christian]

Dude, this topic is going to start a flame war.

Sure, the Yankees are struggling right now. But, they had problems getting out of the gate last year and they still won their division. If I were a Red Sox fan, I wouldn't talk smack. Their team is also doing poorly despite their win last year. Strange that Red Sox nation always complains about how much we spend, as if their team didn't outspend other teams in the game as well. If you look at the big picture, the Yankees still dominate the Red Sox. As soon as this baseball season is over, it'll be back to the old ways where Yankee fans had fun with the Red Sox fans.

 

[christian]

I also don't understand what the original article tries to prove. The Yankees made the better moves, but everything went right for the Red Sox last year. What looked great on paper, didn't turn out as well as we hoped.

I'd also point out that Shef was a runner-up for the MVP award last season so I don't know why they criticize signing him.

And, sure, Brownie is old. But, he was still pitching lighst out for the Dodgers when we got him. And, we got rid of Weaver in that deal, who's as fragile emotionally as he looks. He couldn't handle the pressure of NYC. If its bad to get older pitchers, then I guess the RedSOx shouldn't have signed Schilling then.

I recognize the Yankees are mortaging our future by trading away all our prospects. But, I'd also argue that prospects are overrated. You don't if they'll ever deliver on all their promise when they actually make it to the big leagues. The only reason they're valuable is because they're cheap. But, with our money, that's really a moot point.

You play to win the game. And, if the Yankees don't win the World Series, then its all pointless. These things are cyclical, and there's only a narrow window of oppurtunity left for us to win with our golden generation of players like Jeter, Posada, Riveria, etc... Even if we didn't sacrifice future flexibility, there's no guarantee we'd have a core group of players that would be able to win the WS. Better to squeeze in that last championship rather than settle for years of good, almost great, teams that won't be able to contend for the WS.

 

[PeterMetro]

See as a Red Sox fan, we care more about the Orioles at this point. We're looking to win our division - we can't waste our time worrying about last place teams. Sh*t, the Devil Rays scare us more than the Yankees.

 

[matadorpoeta]

i have one gripe with baseball. there isn't enough symmetry to the game. it should be 3 strikes you're out, 3 balls to get a walk. making it 4 balls for a walk doesn't make sense. there are 3 strikes, 3 outs in an inning, 9 innings, 9 guys on the field, 90 feet between bases; all multiples of 3. yet for some reason, the distance between home plate and the outfield fence is completely random, 287' to the left field fence, 375' to right-center field, etc... why don't they use a multiple of three, like say 270' or 300', and have that be the distance to the fence at all parts of the outfield? other than that, i like baseball, but only during the playoffs, and only if the dodgers are playing. p.s. where's that thread where some of the guys were actually arguing that bonds was not on steroids? i'd like to know what those guys have to say now.

just quoting myself to see if anyone has thoughts on what i said. i love soccer with a passion, but i'll aslo be the first to admit that the rules are not perfect.

 

[PeterMetro]

i have one gripe with baseball. there isn't enough symmetry to the game. it should be 3 strikes you're out, 3 balls to get a walk. making it 4 balls for a walk doesn't make sense. there are 3 strikes, 3 outs in an inning, 9 innings, 90 feet between bases; all multiples of 3. yet for some reason, the distance between home plate and the outfield fence is completely random, 287' to the left field fence, 375' to right-center field, etc... why don't they use a multiple of three, like say 270' or 300', and have that be the distance to the fence at all parts of the outfield? other than that, i like baseball, but only during the playoffs, and only if the dodgers are playing. p.s. where's that thread where some of the guys were actually arguing that bonds was not on steroids? i'd like to know what those guys have to say now.

I'll respond. Baseball is a game of percentages. I actually find it very impressive that they have been able to find a balance with all the variables involved. To wit, it is harder to throw a strike than a ball. Therefore, the pitcher is allowed three balls before he walks a batter but only two strikes before he gets a strike out. It's not symmetrical, but it is balanced: the original proposition (throwing strikes versus throwing balls) is unfair; the 4/3 ratio balances it out. It's the same with the distances in the outfield - it's easier to hit a ball hard to straightaway center than it is down the line. Therefore the fence is farther away in center field. As for your multiple of 3 idea, I'm not sure how making 287 feet 288 feet is any less arbitrary. It would be kind of cool though, like the Getty Center (any idea what I'm talking about?)

 

[chorse123]

Re the outfield fences, you have to consider that in the past they had to conform to the space available (think Wrigley and Fenway). I think it's fantastic that there's variety to the parks.

In general though, I think the multiples of 3 are essentially coincidence. They were arrived at through evolution in the rules.

 

[PeterMetro]

I think it's fantastic that there's variety to the parks.

I agree. Imagine never getting the chance to hear:

"Dude, he hammid it. It cleah'd the monstah."

 

[petescolari]

Quote:

(chorse123 @ May 12 2005,10:13) I think it's fantastic that there's variety to the parks.
I agree. Â Imagine never getting the chance to hear: "Dude, he hammid it. Â It cleah'd the monstah."
You must spend some time at the Riviera to get your fix?

 

[PeterMetro]

Yup. There are a couple other bars that play Sox games too, I hit those up frequently.

 

[matadorpoeta]

To wit, it is harder to throw a strike than a ball.  Therefore, the pitcher is allowed three balls before he walks a batter but only two strikes before he gets a strike out.  It's not symmetrical, but it is balanced: the original proposition (throwing strikes versus throwing balls) is unfair; the 4/3 ratio balances it out.

i disagree. it may be hard to throw a strike. but hey, sports are hard. if you want balance, how about the old saying that 'good pitching beats good hitting.' 3 and 3 would even things out a little in the batter's favor, without them having to resort to steroids.

i understand your comments on the outfield and the historical reasons for the outfield distances. i know what you mean about the getty center, and that's exactly what i'm talking about. there is a beauty in symmetry and in the case of baseball it is there quite naturally. it's ashame that it has to be ruined by a couple of little things.

In general though, I think the multiples of 3 are essentially coincidence. They were arrived at through evolution in the rules.

i think the fact that this symmetry is there naturally and is not contrived is all the more reason to preserve it. once they decided on 90 ft from home to first, it was natural that it would be 90 ft from first to second. that's why it should be 3 balls for a walk.