Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Millerp, Mar 18, 2005.
Thanks BlvdDandy. I should just visit this forum more often
Holland & Sherry is among my favorites. Â You can never go wrong with H&S. Â Their Donegal Tweed cloth is outstanding and I like their Snowy River range, too, which, refreshingly, avoids the Superfine excess.
I would move up Smiths and Harrisons, definitely. Minnis ... probably. Dormeuil and Scabal probably belong in a different category. Not that they're not good, but they specialize in luxury cloth, and their "ordinary" stuff (to the extent that they have any) costs more than comparable or better stuff from other mills.
Is Wain Shiell really third-tier?
Depends on whether you want to spend several hundred dollars more to upgrade the cloth. If not, then get the VBC. I do. I forget how much WW Chan charges for cloth from any of the English mills, but remember some of them being more than double the price of VBC when it is on special.
There is a difference between "not top of the line" and "garbage." VBC is not top of the line, but it isn't garbage.
J&J Minnis, Fox Bros., Harrisons, Carlo Barbera are all among the finest purveyors and should be in Tier 1. Â Harrisons is known for their Millionaire's Cashmere, possibly the finest cashmere in the world, certainly among them (Kiton uses MC). Â John Hardy deserves inclusion in Tier 1, as well. Coincidentally, I'm wearing today a sport coat made of JH Russell Plaid cloth, the quintessential British pattern, and a gentleman stopped me while waiting at a traffic light and told me how much he admired my jacket.
Also, don't confuse any of the above names with "Barbera" Streisand, a famous, though politically misguided, entertainer.
One additional thought that mixing wool and more expensive, though not necessarily higher quality, fibers such as cashmere can be a method of maximizing the price of the cloth. I looked at cloth recently that has both cashmere and mink in it, which, in the end, really doesn't deliver any real added value to the product. But, it sounds impressive and can help sell cloth.
How does VB 130 cloth compare to say, the cloth used in a standard OTR Canali that retails for 1k+ but can be had on Ebay for $500 or so. Or, to take a suit at a similar pricepoint, the cloth in a Corneliani?
I'm trying to figure out if a Chan suit in VB 130 for $800 or so is worth it, or if a Canali for about that price will be made of vastly superior fabric. .
My chan suit in LP Super 120s seems to be a bit nicer than my Corneliani Linea Sartoria and Canali suits, but not quite as nice as my Corneliani suits in Super 150, if that helps.
I think the VBC 130s is as good as, or better than anything you'll find in the $1K retail price range OTR suits. WW Chan's construction compares favorably to OTR suits in that retail price range as well.
(Stu @ Mar. 18 2005,13:39) How does VB 130 cloth compare to say, the cloth used in a standard OTR Canali that retails for 1k+ but can be had on Ebay for $500 or so. Or, to take a suit at a similar pricepoint, the cloth in a Corneliani? I'm trying to figure out if a Chan suit in VB 130 for $800 or so is worth it, or if a Canali for about that price will be made of vastly superior fabric. .
I think the VBC 130s is as good as, or better than anything you'll find in the $1K retail price range OTR suits. Â WW Chan's construction compares favorably to OTR suits in that retail price range as well.
I guess when I throw in the fact that they have my measurements down exactly, through the trial and error process, it's a no brainer.
by the way while this is an interesting topic to make it relevent you need to seperate mills from merchants ( lesser being a merchant). In my oppinion at the very top end in the UK you have Taylor & Lodge & Moxon. After these you have HFW, Schofield,Bower & Roebuck, Hallstead and several others. I have to say in my oppinion Taylor & Lodge is the best of the best. I agree with Marc on Carlo Barbera ( really more of an english mill than an italian one ) I disagree with his asessment on V.B.C. I have always felt from a value perspective that they are very highly rated and make a much better cloth than L.P.
It is interesting how Carlo Barbera, most definitely an Italian textile mill, is embraced by London tailors and those tailors who are Anglophiles, such as my NY tailor, Raphael. Â Joe Morgan on Savile Row loves CB. Â When I first visited with Joe, he showed off a handsome CB jacket that was in the fitting process. Â Raphael waxes poetic about CB. Â And, I have developed an appreciation for CB through these two gents. Â The CB range that Lesser distributes is my favorite in that it is sturdy (I like a stout cloth.) yet its softness and sheer beauty is characteristically of Italian pedigree. Â Patterns and designs are conceived and executed as only the Italians can do, a distinct departure from the more rigid English patterns. Â I do feel especially rakish in my Carlo Barbera sport coats, sort of like a young Gianni Agnelli (Hey, I can dream, can't I). Maybe I should start wearing my Seiko Black Monster wristwatch over my shirt cuff Grayson
Just for Info, the cost of material alone in using VBC Revenge(Super 130) for a suit is about 250-300 USD in Asia. So for the one who is asking whether the Chan suit is worth the money, you have to put a value to Chan's craftsmanship and service.
In my view, VBC fabric is definitely not garbage. Someone once told me that VBC fabric is made using high speed modern machine. Thus, they produce more cloth and hence the lower price. I have no idea wheher it will affect the quality or not though. An analogy I can think of is in the making of jeans--some companies make use of those much slower antique looms, thus raising the cost of the end product.
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