US Passes France In Wine Consumption

[Manton]

Chard does seem to me to have the most variation from region to region. I mean Chablis and Napa are about as far apart as you can get, taste-wise, and still be drinking the same grape. I don't know if that's all terroir or what.

 

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by Manton

Chard does seem to me to have the most variation from region to region. I mean Chablis and Napa are about as far apart as you can get, taste-wise, and still be drinking the same grape. I don't know if that's all terroir or what.

California heat?

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by gomestar

California heat?

Could be a part of it. I bet it is. Riper grapes. Less variation from vintage to vintage.

They say (or the Atlas says) that the soil in Chablis is pretty much unique in the whole wine world.

 

[Piobaire]

Longer hang time in CA = lower acidity also.

Btw, I get what you're saying foodguy, I just think it's a scale of manipulation if you know what I mean.

 

[foodguy]

there are so many factors that go into what a wine tastes like, even from the same "varietal" (quotes to be explained later). i suppose they all could be categorized under manipulation, at one level or another. soil, climate (long-term and vintage-to-vintage), vineyard management (trellising, believe it or not, can make a big difference), which particular clone of a varietal you use, which rootstock that clone is grafted on to, watering schedules before veraison, after veraison and just before harvest, how the grapes are thinned, harvested, crushed, transported. at what brix, ph, seed maturity ... and that's all before you get it into the winery.
chardonnay is actually a fairly transparent grape. brewer clifton in the santa rita hills actually made 5 chardonnays at one point, from 5 vineyards within 10 miles of the winery, all of them vinified exactly the same way, and they tasted completely different.
the word that describes what i was talking about -- and a good one for your somm exam, piob -- is "maquilage" ... makeup ... manipulations that disguise the flavor of the grape rather than simply affecting it.

 

[Manton]

What effect do you think rootstock has?

 

[foodguy]

Originally Posted by Manton

What effect do you think rootstock has?
there are winemakers who claim that the choice of rootstock is as important as the choice of clone. briefly ... winegrapes are grown on rootstocks that are different than their natural ones to prevent phylloxera (winegrapes are vitis vinifera, which are susceptible, most rootstocks are vitis riparia, which are not ... or not as much, as most of Northern California discovered to its dismay in the 1990s). the rootstock is the part of the vine that controls the uptake of not just water, but nutrients. different rootstocks grow differently in different soil situations and climates. different clones react differently to different rootstocks. there's a kind of 3-level jigsaw puzzle of getting the right rootstock matched to the right clone grown in the right area. the possible combinations are pretty endless, and pretty endlessly discussed and analyzed (when test planting a vineyard, it's common to try 3-4 clones on 3-4 different rootstocks (9-16 total), to see which reacts best. i've sat through these discussions so often ... i swear if i had a tape i could put it in a travel radio as a kind of white noise sleep machine. eta: just in case that wasn't enough detail ... often times different rootstocks will be used on the same clone in the same vineyard, depending on slope, soil type and drainage

 

[kwilkinson]

Originally Posted by gomestar

is terroire a choice?
lolwat

 

[gomestar]

..

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

lolwat

Originally Posted by Piobaire

What type of canopy, how to prune, vine density, etc., along with the choice of terrior.

 

[kwilkinson]

Yeah, I read that Piob said that. But I'm lolwatting at your idea that terroir isn't a choice. How could it not be?

 

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

Yeah, I read that Piob said that. But I'm lolwatting at your idea that terroir isn't a choice. How could it not be?

quick wiki quote

While wine experts disagree as to the exact definition, particular consideration is given to the natural elements that are generally considered beyond the control of humans

I'm not talking about selecting different plots of land in different regions as the "choice", but rather the fact that if you have a vineyard in Chablis, you don't really have much choice over the "terroir"

 

[kwilkinson]

Sure, if you own a vineyard in Chablis, you don't have much in the way of choosing a terroir for your vineyard. But you still have the freedom to go to any other terroir and buy property. Which is what I assume Piob meant when he said you can choose terroir.

 

[foodguy]

i think terroir as a concept is extremely important -- that where grapes are grown is vital to how they taste. but in practice, it's not quite so useful. different vineyards in chablis taste different. different parts of the same vineyard can taste different (typically, they're blended to come up with an identity that embraces both).
and it's not as if you can pick the grapes, crush them, put them in the barrel and then leave them alone until you're ready to bottle. every intervention has an effect. i guess the trick is -- for the terroiristes -- to intervene as rarely as possible while making the effects as beneficial as possible.

 

[itsstillmatt]

On the topic of purely pleasurable wines, we drank a Chevillon Bourgogne Passetoutgrain, which is basically just a pinot/gamay blend though other things can be added. I love the stuff, it holds up to winter food a bit better than some beaujolais does and it is just freaking delicious. Really inexpensive as well.

 

[Nil]

I picked up three different kinds of Crus Beaujolais after reading this thread. I figured it's finally time I step up my wine knowledge and expand my horizons.