US Passes France In Wine Consumption

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by gomestar

I learned slightly different, not that i have my notes available

I think

viti = growing any grape

vini = growing grapes for vinification.

 

[foodguy]

c'mon piob, give it a rest. this nonsense started with me commenting that i liked to taste the grape in chardonnay and it has now spun into CE "how many angels" "what do you mean by 'is'?" territory.

 

[gomestar]

nm, I'm thinking vinification

 

[Piobaire]

I don't think so but whatever. I think every choice impacts the wine but readily see that some are more artificial, for lack of a better word, than others. I agree, using the word "manipulation" connotes certain things while not connoting others. I'm trying to acknowledge that while also keeping in mind that all choices impact the final product. /shrug

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by gomestar

nm, I'm thinking vinification

So we could split it up to viniculture, its choices and impacts and vinification, its choices and impacts? "Manipulation" would be a subset of vinification choices, like soaking oak chips?

 

[gomestar]

I'd distinguish them as such if the need arose to be granular

 

[itsstillmatt]

Can I go back to enjoying my wine now? Or at least in four hours.

 

[Mark from Plano]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Can I go back to enjoying my wine now? Or at least in four hours.

Will you be stopping for wood chips to soak in it on the way home?

 

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by Mark from Plano

Will you be stopping for wood chips to soak in it on the way home?

Matt doesn't strike me as one who would enjoy a good teabagging.

 

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by winedrinking

Actually, Kendall-Jackson and it's family doesn't use oak chips. In essence, they don't "teabag" any of their wines. Everything made is done in oak. Now whether or not that fits your palate is a different story altogether.

It's also worth noting that just because something is mass produced doesn't mean it's made in bulk, if you follow my distinction. KJ uses small lots, and artisan techniques.

Originally Posted by Manton

I'm shocked that it's possible to age a million case production in oak, not using chips, and still be able to charge what they charge.

I'm shocked that despite using "small lots" and "artisan techniques" they've still managed to produce such a vile product.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Can I go back to enjoying my wine now? Or at least in four hours.

I think I shall have that bottle of white, the one I ordered special, on Sunday with some scallops.

 

[kwilkinson]

Originally Posted by foodguy

there are so many wine books out there. kwilky cited two very good references for looking things up. but trying to learn about wine through a reference is like trying to learn about history through an encyclopedia ... it can be done, but you're going to miss a lot of context. if you really want to learn about wine ... not just be able to rattle off place names and obscure production techniques ... i think the best writer around is my old friend Matt Kramer. His "Making Sense of Wine" is absolutely terrific. he followed that up with "Making Sense of Burgundy", which is more specific but even better (history of why burgundy is the way it is). He's also done books on italy and california. the vital difference with matt's books is a) he's a REALLY graceful writer, a pleasure to read, not just a collector of facts; and b) you really get the context in which these wines exist. they're not just free-floating brand names.

Originally Posted by iammatt

This is my favorite wine book. It sets you up to enjoy, not be an expert, which is exactly what I want. Good to hear he is a nice guy as well. Certainly comes off as one.

Never heard of him, but I'll see what the library can do for me based on your recs.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

Never heard of him, but I'll see what the library can do for me based on your recs.
He is a good writer, and he has a great, IMO, perspective on what wine drinking ought to be about. Now, the latter probably doesn't apply to you as your job is to have more technical info, but I think it would still be useful, as educating your customers to take his perspective, or at least understand it, would be good for them, and eventually good for the wine world.

 

[eg1]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Define world class.
That which is not Toronto.

Originally Posted by Manton

There is a longstanding prejudice against Zin in the CA wine country going back to Prohibition days. It was always most grown by the Italians who dominated the Valley. It was considered very cheap and strong but not elegant. During Prohibition, crushing one's own wine was legal in certain quantities. The Italians survived by selling Zin (and other cheap grapes) to Italians throughout the country who crushed and fermented basement wine. This was considered very immigrant and downmarket.

Zin never really recovered from that. It's always been considered a cheap grape for mass consumption by lowbrows.

I enjoy plonk, myself -- mostly Italian or South American. I confine anything approximating pretense to my whiskey.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by eg1

I enjoy plonk, myself -- mostly Italian or South American. I confine anything approximating pretense to my whiskey.

You sir, have lost the right to refer to yourself as "Canadian."