TyCooN's Official Boxing Thread

[hendrix]



Now I'm curious. What country is your country?

New Zealand. So not a particularly big talent pool but we're pretty good at contact sports...

 

[RFX45]



He is a great boxer, but I think that his lack of punching power and finishing ability is really going to plague he legacy.  Some fighters are great boxer-punchers, and some have seemed to be able to switch up between the two.  Floyd is a great boxer, but I think that his lack of aggression and his inability to finish frustrates his own camp as much as anyone else.  For example, on Saturday, there were a few times it seemed that Floyd could have legitimately hurt Manny and perhaps scored a knockdown, but he never opted to do it.  Which is odd, seeing that he has this (annoyingly) good ability to clinch up when the distance is not to his liking, and it's not like Manny has ever been known for his counterpunching ability.

I thought he was going for it in the 11th.

 

[hendrix]



He is a great boxer, but I think that his lack of punching power and finishing ability is really going to plague he legacy.  Some fighters are great boxer-punchers, and some have seemed to be able to switch up between the two.  Floyd is a great boxer, but I think that his lack of aggression and his inability to finish frustrates his own camp as much as anyone else.  For example, on Saturday, there were a few times it seemed that Floyd could have legitimately hurt Manny and perhaps scored a knockdown, but he never opted to do it.  Which is odd, seeing that he has this (annoyingly) good ability to clinch up when the distance is not to his liking, and it's not like Manny has ever been known for his counterpunching ability.

Yeah, I've noticed this in a lot of Floyd fights and I'm always getting the feeling that he could have scored more knockouts than he did. It's strange to say this about someone with a history of domestic violence, but he seems to really not enjoy hurting people. Certainly in post match conferences he goes well out of his way to congratulate his opponent. And I've heard him on numerous occasions try to explain, very in-eloquently (he probably is illiterate, after all), that the "audience ain't going to be paying the medical bill" of those sports people who suffer from the effects of concussion.

Maybe he does have the power, maybe he doesn't. It was pretty clear he was toying with Manny for the last 6 or so rounds. The knockout probably could have come but either way it was a dominant display.

 

[TyCooN]



Yeah, I've noticed this in a lot of Floyd fights and I'm always getting the feeling that he could have scored more knockouts than he did. It's strange to say this about someone with a history of domestic violence, but he seems to really not enjoy hurting people. Certainly in post match conferences he goes well out of his way to congratulate his opponent. And I've heard him on numerous occasions try to explain, very in-eloquently (he probably is illiterate, after all), that the "audience ain't going to be paying the medical bill" of those sports people who suffer from the effects of concussion.

Maybe he does have the power, maybe he doesn't. It was pretty clear he was toying with Manny for the last 6 or so rounds. The knockout probably could have come but either way it was a dominant display.

Floyd doesn't have the most durable hands

He has hurt his hands during fights throughout his career, more so than the standard for fighters

 

[LA Guy]

Not Floyd's fault that there are no elite pressure fighters in his weight division.

If he was so adamant about avoiding tests, he would have waited a long time before rematching Castillo and and Maidana just like manny did his best to delay the third Marquez fight

and manny was an adopted great white hope. He had that well-behaved subservient behavior that ordinary people feel comfortable with.

Maidana was a former gangbanger, and Castillo wasn't clean cut. They didn't fit mainstream society's fruity little disney fairytale and politically correct narrative.

Just because they were unknown didn't mean they didn't test Floyd. If you want to be frustrated, manny is the guy to be frustrated at. He failed to deliver despite profiteering for years off the myth of being the one to challenge Floyd.

Meanwhile a 'nobody' like Marcos was able to make Floyd 'fight'

No, definitely not his fault that there haven't been any elite pressure fighters to truly test him, but history is written by great rivalries, and Floyd has had none.

I think that you are forgetting history re. people wanting to see Floyd get beat. People wanted to see Manny win, but they also wanted to see Maidana win. I mean, people wanted to see Mosley beat Floyd. Is Mosley less black than Floyd? It's not his opponents, it's not about race, it's just that people just want to see a guy like Floyd - talents, constantly showing off and trash talking, lose.

 

[LA Guy]

I thought he was going for it in the 11th.

He's doe this several times now. He goes for it, for about 2 minutes, but when it is obvious that he hasn't done the homework for the KO to come, he sensibly gets on his bicycle for the 12th.

 

[LA Guy]

Yeah, I've noticed this in a lot of Floyd fights and I'm always getting the feeling that he could have scored more knockouts than he did. It's strange to say this about someone with a history of domestic violence, but he seems to really not enjoy hurting people. Certainly in post match conferences he goes well out of his way to congratulate his opponent. And I've heard him on numerous occasions try to explain, very in-eloquently (he probably is illiterate, after all), that the "audience ain't going to be paying the medical bill" of those sports people who suffer from the effects of concussion.

Maybe he does have the power, maybe he doesn't. It was pretty clear he was toying with Manny for the last 6 or so rounds. The knockout probably could have come but either way it was a dominant display.

He wasn't toying with Manny. He definitely was up on every card, but it's not like he was hitting Manny at will and not getting hit at all. If he was toying with Manny, and really wasn't at all concerned with Manny's punching power and ability to launch combinations, he would not have relied so heavily on the jab, and could have done a lot more of the body work that is necessary if you are legitimately looking to get the KO.

Floyd doesn't have the most durable hands

He has hurt his hands during fights throughout his career, more so than the standard for fighters

He really doesn't. Maybe he should have trained with Kung Fu fighters. Seriously.

 

[LA Guy]

I think that at the end of the day, Floyd is going to go down in history as the least terrifying dominant champion of all time. I think that that pretty much sums it up. A dominant champion, but not one that anyone has a problem getting into the ring with.

 

[ter1413]

Here is the statement put out by Manny's team along with Top Rank re his shoulder:
http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/20765-shoulder-statement-from-pacquiao-and-top-rank

Some funny things I have seen less than 3 days after the fight:

-Manny is finally taking some ridicule re the outcome of the "boring" fight. So many people are still blaming PBF after what was supposed to be an onslaught of punches/aggressiveness from Manny which never happened.
-Manny's greed to make sure the fight happened and that he got paid has been mentioned...finally. Prior, it was all about PBF's greed and the "humble and likable" Manny.
-Manny's team signed off on the pre fight questionnaire that he had no issues. None. Now his team/manager is saying that it was a mistake. Ok. The biggest fight in his career. 60+ fights in his career. And his camp makes such an obvious "mistake." I think not.

-Freddie Roach claiming pre fight that PBF's legs were gone and not the same. 1 hour after the fight, he claimed that PBF ran during the fight. This 7 time HOF trainer had no answer for what is and has been PBF's blueprint for many years.
-The last sentence in the shoulder statement says it all..."as Manny has said multiple times, he makes no excuses. Manny gave it his best."
Really? What post fight press conference were they not watching or a part of? 1 hour+ after the fight, Manny, Roach and Arum were bitching about his shoulder. That's an excuse.. What BS from this camp.

Larry Holmes injured his arm before he fought Ken Norton 5 days before the fight. He went on to win and not cry about it.
Arturo Gatti broke his hand during his third fight with Ward. He went on to win that fight and not cry about it.
PBF has injured his hand(s) several times during fights. The most recent is probably vs Robert Guerrero. He went on to win and not cry about it.

^^ That is just 3 examples where fighters fought with serious injuries. What is the common denominator? They all won.
Manny lost and he and his camp now want all of his "followers' to feel his pain as if his injury is more alarming than others who fought before him. Bullshit.

-PBF would have been crucified if he lost(well...there was no chance of that) and then claimed to be injured. Crucified. Yet the Manny dick-riders still give this guy a pass?
-I am so glad that PBF has just laid in the cut and is enjoying his win. There is no need to add/comment. Let Manny and his pathetic team dig their own grave.
-Manny is a fraud. His "humble and likable" guy act is just that. He was out to get paid(and I don't knock him for that) just like PBF was. That's why he stood there taking a stupid selfie during the walk-in and at the weigh-in vs focusing on the issue at hand......the fight.
-Freddie Roach can stop now. Stop with the KO predictions. Stop with the my fighter will do this and that. Stop with the Floyd's trainer is this and that. Stop.
-Please....will the Manny dick riders stop. Stop with the he won. Stop with the judges got paid off. Stop with the Nevada State Athletic Commission messed up. Stop with the PBF ran. Stop with all the bullshit.
Your guy lost. Suck it up and go the **** home.

*I watched and thought that Diego Corrales would beat PBF. He didn't
*I watched and thought that Michael Spinks would beat Tyson(I was was a big Spinks Jinx fan.) He didn't.
*I watched and thought that Hagler would beat Leonard. He didn't.
*I watched and thought that Tyson would beat Buster Douglas. He didn't.

****, I can go on and on. Fighters lose. It happens. But come on......3 days after and the idiot Manny fans(not directing that to anyone on this forum, but I have read hundreds of posts elsewhere) are still claiming victory? Stop crying! Or maybe they are just following their "idol" as he has not stopped crying since the fight ended!

 

[ter1413]

Here is a post that I found online that pretty much sums it up...for anyone with any sense:


"The fallout from these accusations by Manny's camp are just beginning and may result in regret and severe financial penalties down the road.

Regardless of whether they are true or not Arum, Manny, and Roach have thrown away all of the positive hype about Manny and Roach first by Floyd playing with him like a yo-yo and now with either the poorest show of sportsmanship seen in a long time, a sad ploy for a rematch, or a dirty cover-up of an injury that should have been announced before people paid $300 million or more. So know people are left to ask who was the biggest villain in this fight?. This is just another example of why it's wrong for the Media to paint people as saints as sinners."

 

[TyCooN]



Here is a post that I found online that pretty much sums it up...for anyone with any sense:


"The fallout from these accusations by Manny's camp are just beginning and may result in regret and severe financial penalties down the road.

Regardless of whether they are true or not Arum, Manny, and Roach have thrown away all of the positive hype about Manny and Roach first by Floyd playing with him like a yo-yo and now with either the poorest show of sportsmanship seen in a long time, a sad ploy for a rematch, or a dirty cover-up of an injury that should have been announced before people paid $300 million or more. So know people are left to ask who was the biggest villain in this fight?. This is just another example of why it's wrong for the Media to paint people as saints as sinners."

I'm happy to see that manny is finally being held accountable for his actions.

What do you think of all the coverage the media is giving his 'injury'. It's like the media wants to excuse his incompetence and limitations because you know for years it kept saying manny will beat Floyd. Of course the media turned out to be wrong and is now pathetically trying to salvage its politically correct agenda

 

[ter1413]



I'm happy to see that manny is finally being held accountable for his actions.

[COLOR=FF00AA]What do you think of all the coverage the media is giving his 'injury'. [/COLOR] It's like the media wants to excuse his incompetence and limitations because you know for years it kept saying manny will beat Floyd. Of course the media turned out to be wrong and is now pathetically trying to salvage its politically correct agenda

I was listening to WFAN(NY based sports radio station) earlier today. Tony Paige(former Boxing Writers Association of America president), who swore that Manny would beat Floyd, actually shocked me by questioning Manny's decision to not put it out there that he was injured.......while in the same breath stating that PBF isn't one of the best fighters ever. Tony, who was at the fight, said that he felt that it was a 90%+ crowd in favor of Manny. Even in the press room, it was the same.

The press has a "smoking gun." The pre fight questionnaire is straight forward. They didn't disclose anything. However, they are handling this/Manny(at this time) with kid gloves.
They are quick to give him a pass...but it would be a crucifixion if the issue would have been on PBF's side.

I read/heard a few statements (very few)from the press who now question Manny's desire to just "get paid" and not care that he was bot 100%. No one has said that he lied to his fans. Lied to the press. Lied to everyone who wanted to see the "fight of the century" but couldn't(and would not have even if he was 100%) just for the paycheck. Lied to all those people who put down and lost big $$ on Manny!

I still hear some in the press/media saying that the reason that there was no fight of the century was PBF's fault. Once again, Manny, the humble/nice guy gets a pass. **** him.

I am waiting for the..."It would have been different if he was 100%" talk to start.
I read a comment...PBF at his worst beats Manny at his best. 100%! That was of course from a PBF fan. No one in the press who picked Manny for years would admit that.

The better/smarter/more durable/skilled/etc fighter won.

Pac and his fans/press lost. The sooner that they realize that and STFU, the better.

If I were PBF, Ellerbe or Haymon, I would advise everyone in their camp to say nothing. Let Manny dig his own hole. TMT won. Manny lost and are continuing to lose as each day goes by.

 

[ter1413]

To throw my $.02 in re who should PBF fight next.....I say Amir.
He is the biggest draw. He will have the British fans from all around the World travel to see the fight(a la Hatton). He is fighting at the end of the month, so he will need to win.

The issue is Ramadan and the fact that Amir will need to fast during that time and that would take away from his training for a Sept fight. There have been reports that Amir said that Ellerbe approached him after the fight and said that they should "get it on."

I think they would need to move the date. And with PBF saying that Sept is when he wants to fight, that may leave what I will feel will be the biggest "draw" SOL.

Thurman? I don't see it. He is not a draw. While some may say that he is rugged a la Maidana (I somewhat agree) and can punch(I def agree), Maidana had the Argentine fans and has a track record. Few people who follow boxing casually know who One Time is.

GGG...as stated....he is too big. I don't think this fight would get made at a catch weight.

Garcia would be my 2nd or 3rd choice. I actually think that his dad would tone it down a lot because of the respect that they have for PBF. I watched a youtube interview of Danny and his dad after the fight and they both gave PBF enough respect. They did say that they would take the fight...but there was no **** talking. However, his dad could stir it up as Guerrero's dad did.

Brook? Eh. What is the draw to fight him? His belt? Not any more.

Some other solid choices are rematches with Canelo or Cotto. Both of those fights would be huge also. Not PBF vs Manny huge...but huge.

 

[LawrenceMD]

"I'm so compuzed!"

 

[TyCooN]



To throw my $.02 in re who should PBF fight next.....I say Amir.
He is the biggest draw. He will have the British fans from all around the World travel to see the fight(a la Hatton). He is fighting at the end of the month, so he will need to win.

The issue is Ramadan and the fact that Amir will need to fast during that time and that would take away from his training for a Sept fight. There have been reports that Amir said that Ellerbe approached him after the fight and said that they should "get it on."

I think they would need to move the date. And with PBF saying that Sept is when he wants to fight, that may leave what I will feel will be the biggest "draw" SOL.

Thurman? I don't see it. He is not a draw. While some may say that he is rugged a la Maidana (I somewhat agree) and can punch(I def agree), Maidana had the Argentine fans and has a track record. Few people who follow boxing casually know who One Time is.

GGG...as stated....he is too big. I don't think this fight would get made at a catch weight.

Garcia would be my 2nd or 3rd choice. I actually think that his dad would tone it down a lot because of the respect that they have for PBF. I watched a youtube interview of Danny and his dad after the fight and they both gave PBF enough respect. They did say that they would take the fight...but there was no **** talking. However, his dad could stir it up as Guerrero's dad did.

Brook? Eh. What is the draw to fight him? His belt? Not any more.

Some other solid choices are rematches with Canelo or Cotto. Both of those fights would be huge also. Not PBF vs Manny huge...but huge.

Floyd isn't going to risk his hold over the September date for someone like Amir

Saul Alvarez tried to jack it from him earlier this year.

Amir isn't that important.

anyways, it seems like Floyd is being greedy. He's saying he'll rematch the chump next year after the shoulder is recovered.

http://www.boxingscene.com/mayweather-says-hell-give-pacquiao-rematch--90652

I suppose the dollars are too good to turn down. Floyd will come into a rematch better like he always does. manny in addition will have ring rust.

I expect manny to win 1 round at most and for Floyd to show him minimal respect in the rematch.

I really hope someone beats manny before he can get to a Floyd rematch next year.

anyways, if Floyd really plans to do this he'll retire at 50+ - 0 and not 49-0