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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mimo, Feb 12, 2016.

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  1. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    The Globemaster, even the standard steel version is a dog! The combination of the chunky case, pie pan dial and narrow fluting of the bezel are a hideous combination. In addition, I can't see the Globemaster getting a pass by the "Regulars" on this thread, if it were sold by Rolex. From what I have seen, even the most ardent Rolex fans here dole out plenty of criticism of various current Rolex watches. Several of us didn't like the proportions of the 41mm Day-Date or Datejust. I find the DeepSea ridiculous in terms of size, top heavy, and IMHO its proportions make the bracelet seem too small for it. Other's here complain about the hand length of the current Explorer. However, IMHO, the worst looking watch they make is the Yachtmaster II. Its just goofy looking, and having it say Yachtmaster II on the bezel is just obnoxious. Now maybe on other forums people give some watches a pass, but most people here are very detail oriented and an ugly watch is an ugly watch regardless of maker. Cheers!
     
    2 people like this.
  2. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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  3. BLAUGRANA

    BLAUGRANA Senior member

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    I respectfully disagree on both counts. With regards to the Globemaster I think that's an overstatement, but to each their own. Again, I don't like it, but there are plenty of worse options out there. As for Rolex, my perception is my reality and while I overstated my point surely, I see models or references get high praise that I personally don't love.
     
  4. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    It's healthy that there are a variety of perspectives. If I might add my own solitary positive on the Globemaster: the platinum version is cool. It doesn't have the 6 o'clock date that I hate, and that crazy lume and all the things Dino doesn't like make for an absolute spaceship. I'm not sure I'd buy it even if I had the beans, and understand why they'd be divisive, but I think it holds together pretty well as a modern take when it's stripped down to time only like this.
     
  5. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    First no one said its the worst option. Surely there are uglier watches, I can't think of any [​IMG] . Just kidding ...there are plenty of misteps from other makers even from big fan boy brands like Rolex, PP, AP, VC etc...its just IMHO the Globemaster a a big miss, and for what they cost there are other watches I'd rather own.

    Its fine not to see why people like certain things, that you don't like. We can't all like the same stuff. They fact that you don't see why other people like or buy something doesn't mean its getting a pass. It simply means your taste is different. I love my Royal Oak, and while there are other people here who also like them, there are plenty of people here who don't like like ROs. I don't think its a matter of people giving it a pass for being from AP. Sometimes one's taste puts one in line with the majority sometimes not.

    I think we will just have to agree to disagree.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
  6. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    I'll chime in here to say that the Globemaster is a real dog, an absolute abomination that combines the best of several (some iconic) Omega watches to come up with the absolute worst. It's like a frankenstein lovechild of a 60s Constellation, a 70s Constellation, and an early Seamaster.

    The design person responsible for it should be figuratively be taken out back and shot. If your best "defence" of their looks is that "hey people will give it a pass if it says Rolex"... it's really as good as no defence at all and it's really you projecting your perception of another brand.
     
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  7. BostonHedonist

    BostonHedonist Senior member

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    Is it worth it for an industry outsider to go to Basel World? Would I be able to see anything up close? I'm debating popping over.
     
  8. DLJr

    DLJr Senior member

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    Just wanted to address a few things.

    First, I think you're being way too liberal with what constitutes as similar here with a Saconia or 1815. I suppose that if round, time only with sub seconds are your criteria, then sure. But if that is it, I would never look at anything outside VC or Lange. Just silly, even outside of price, to compare those to the Orion.

    On the swatch thing, I actually agree to an extent with specific lines, and with the release of the neomatik line and all the random colored limited editions for Wempe, etc. But really, before the Neomatik line came out, the Tetra line was really the only one that could be considered fashion-y or swatch-like. The club, tangomat, ludwig, zurich, etc. line were all very non-fashion IMO. So I think that's a bit of a broad stroke there. Also, the Metro has always struck me as Nomos branching out as opposed to as their most typical example.

    Then on the Welzeit, I'm just confused how it can be both more like other watches out there but yet also a distinctive GMT.
     
  9. TheTukker

    TheTukker Senior member

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    Many thanks for all the views on the JLC Dualtime - much appreciated!


    I am not as much a fan of the centralized subdials version, but you have an interesting point about that millimeter of space...


    Think this is the older model; will be a bit of a search to find one.


    That's really a great gift - well done!


    Many thanks Dino!


    Helpful - many thanks.


    Many thanks - very helpful.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
  10. SteveH35

    SteveH35 Senior member

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    You won't see anything from the big brands except in their windows. If you're a nice guy, you can probably get to see some stuff from the Independents.
     
  11. pmeis

    pmeis Senior member

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    Technically this one got moved for the Oyster Perpetual, which then got moved for for the GO.

    Can't say I agree with your thoughts on Nomos, but I do mostly understand where you are coming from.
     
  12. pmeis

    pmeis Senior member

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    IMO, this is the single biggest issue with most modern Omegas. I guess it has to do with their movement choice, which is technically excellent but not the thinnest thing on the block. I really like the aesthetic design of the newer Seamaster 300 master coaxials, but it wears way to big. My 44mm Panerai wears more elegantly. When you compare it to something like newer Rolex Sub, something that it should ultimately directly compete with, the Sub seems practically dainty.
     
  13. SteveH35

    SteveH35 Senior member

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    Wore this one out on date night the other night. With my new EFF Epaulet x Southwick jacket

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. tigerpac

    tigerpac Senior member

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  15. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Some like thinner, neater cases, and some like chunkier ones. There is also the matter of shape, lug width and angle etc. that is going to affect how watch lover X and watch lover Y experience the same watch. Unless you're competing to have the thinnest/lightest/sleekest whatever, it's just a subjective matter of taste. And as Larry Flynt's lawyer said, you can't legislate taste.

    To chime in on the Nomos thing, I do get the "fashion" point, though don't agree with it entirely. Yes, it's fair to say that a certain community of watch lovers have accepted Nomos as an admirable independent with a distinctive and credible house style and great quality for a reasonable price. In doing so, some might have romanticised and idealised the brand at the same time. I think that was Blaugrana's angle, roughly. Where I disagree is that I don't think they've pitched themselves to be trendy or youthful quite like a Swatch or other mass market maker, for two reasons: firstly, at their price point, they are still very much an expensive luxury niche product to the public it large. Only real watch lovers would see their $2-10k range as being modestly priced. And secondly, they don't market themselves to the broader consumer base with lifestyle or celebrity endorsements: they talk to watch nerds about their new movement and aesthetic identity.

    The very origin of their Bauhaus design ethic is the most efficient combination of function and beauty. Although I dislike their more colourful and whimsical designs, none really depart from this ethic. There is plenty of good feedback from owners and reviewers on quality and value, so I don't think it detratcts from the company or its products that some people have become a little too evangelical about its merits. Where the basic question comes in of "but would you buy a Nomos?" it's a bit like the Grand Seiko debate. Few people would argue that they're not good watches, so the "would you?" is really the only important part: most people will choose a Rolex over a GS for the same price, for any reason from brand identity to aesthetic to personal experience or loyalty. More people continue to spend Nomos money on Tag Heuer or Longines or Baume & Mercier even if Nomos are better, because people know what they know and like what they like - not because Nomos don't make better watches.

    Where do I stand? For $4-5k, I would rather have a used Rolex than a new Nomos. For $2k +, I might yet be tempted by a used Zurich, if I can see how it wears on the wrist first. And that's perhaps another reason why a Nomos or a Moser or a RGM or any number of interesting independents might just be losing out in the kop stakes, even to those who like the look of them: by definition, smaller makers don't have their products available for as many people to see. And "see it on the wrist" is a sensible test for most things. Dropping even $2k, let alone $4-5+, is a big bet for most people to place on an internet picture.
     
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  16. BLAUGRANA

    BLAUGRANA Senior member

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    Well as I mentioned earlier I like the numbered edition Speedmaster and everything your post says basically applies to it. Were I to get one I certainly wouldn't expect it to appreciate in value, but at the discounted price I'm seeing I would expect it to hold it's value. Of course if it didn't I feel strongly enough that I would still love the watch considering how many different photos of Speedmaster references I've seen.

    Ah, but I never said anyone said it's the worst option. I was simply saying there are worse options out there, though depending on the scope of your gaze probably even more better options.

    Fair enough on the rest and I agree. I think I was just struck at some of the commentary as I personally hadn't seen or noticed it's like here before. Were the the watch a Rolex and there were a lot of "Omega fans" saying the same I'd surely have posted the same.

    Anyway, no offense to you or anyone else. My apologies.

    Let me first say that I'm definitely painting with broad strokes. That said I was very specifically referring to aesthetics in one way or another. As regards the Saxonia, I'd say that at looking at both watches that they are both of a similar style. The hour markers, minute markers and general face are pretty similar. You've also got the sub dials, which of course have their differences, but when you compare the faces they're pretty similar. Sure you've got different hands and the different text/font, but apart from that they are similar in appearance. And that was all I was saying. You could also add other watches that have this "style" if you ask me. All of that said, of course there are other major differences such as materials, case thickness, lugs, crowns, movement, finishing, etc that set the watches apart. However my post clearly states that I was comparing the watches in terms of how they look and I very clearly noted they look "similar" for the reasons I just stated. Also, I in no way compared the Orion to the 1815 nor does my post suggest I did. I clearly and simply was referring to the differences in price, my budget and my wanting an 1815.

    My Swatch reference goes back to my perception of Swatch back in the 80s along with my somewhat my perception of Nomos now as they compared to other watches out there. For me they both occupy/occupied a space that was different than other watches as both were for the most part at the "lower end" of the spectrum in terms of price yet distinctive in terms of style. Of course there are a myriad of differences. And let me be clear here, I mean that as no slight to Nomos and again I actually like Nomos. Specifically to your point, I can see where you're coming from, but still for me the Tangomat, Club, Ludwig and Zurich all still have a "fashion" element to them. I hate to use that word, but "style" is an entirely different (yes, Nomos have a style as well) and would be too broad. Of course that doesn't mean that they aren't also something else, but with the distinctive looks of many of the Nomos watches they are very "fashionable." I could also say "artistic", but you could say that about a myriad of other watch brands and I felt "fashionable" was a more apt descriptor. And for me the Metro is their most typical example as of nearly all the models that Nomos make it is the one that I find the least like other watches out there for multiple reasons.

    I would take back the part about it being a distinctive GMT as it's part down to appearance. however it for me definitely looks less "Nomos" than the majority of their other collections.

    Wow, you move fast. [​IMG] I was eyeing up your Metro at the time. I remember it based on that photo and the strap.
     
  17. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    I don't think it's fair use the word "fashion" to describe Nomos. They have a consistent and distinctive style, certainly, but it's not like it's based on some kind of meaningless passing trend.

    I think they'll continue to be relevant and look good on the wrist long after most of what else is available in their price range has been forgotten. Good design isn't the same as fashion.



    By the way, spoiler tags are considerate when quoting long posts, people.
     
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  18. BLAUGRANA

    BLAUGRANA Senior member

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    Great points. I completely agree that Nomos indeed haven't pitched themselves to be trendy or youthful like Swatch. I think they simply are "trendy" and "youthful" because of the product they make for multiple reasons you mentioned. I also agree that only real watch lovers might see them as modestly priced and for me it's all relative. I've actually thrown out Nomos to a few friends and co-workers who I felt might like them. They're however ignorant of the watch world and specifically pricing and when I tell them they could get one for about $2k they look at me like I'm crazy.

    Like I said, I was definitely painting in broad strokes.
     
  19. BLAUGRANA

    BLAUGRANA Senior member

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    I can understand after re-reading my initial post where the use of "fashion" comes across as wrong. And it is no matter how you slice it. That said I did use quotes for a reason. I think "distinctive style" is a better way to put it. Good design is most definitely not the same as fashion.

    I agree that they'll definitely continue to be relevant for some time as I think that at minimum they'll always have a strong core of enthusiasts.


    Anyway, putting the mouse down and climbing down from the tree.
     
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  20. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Pretty much a waste for an industry outsider. Friends of mine that are journalists who cover watches, said unless you have been invited as press, you are a buyer for a big chain, or you know someone, you won't have access to much of anything.

    You said, "There are plenty of worse options out there." I was simply saying no one called it the worst option. But is something "Not being the worst option" a good reason to buy one? I doubt most people would buy a car if one of the sales person's most compelling sales points was "There are worse options out there."

    As for you being "Struck at some of the commentaries." Commentaries here on new releases tend to be very blunt and critical regardless of brand. Perhaps you should merely have chalked it up to this design striking a very negative chord with a lot of people.

    Not every design is a success. And hopefully, whether a design failure is from Omega, Rolex, AP, PP, VC, Lange, JLC, Piaget, Cartier, GP, GO etc...all we can hope is that manufacturers will learn from their mistakes and provide better designs/products in the future. To sugar coat things and pretend something is more appealing that it is, doesn't help manufacturers nor does it help a brand's fans to get better products.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
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