Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by luk-cha, Jul 24, 2009.
Size up to fit width is the most common cause of ill fitting shoes.
Thank you Roger.
No doubt. Which is why I expressed the alternative of going up in width. But for comparative purposes as between Vass and G&G in standard widths, I do not have to go to a wide fitting in Vass.
That's very true...a big for that.
That said, sizes can be meaningless. They are just a number printed on the side of the last. And while there is a (supposed) standard...both national and international...it's not law and there is no sizing police.
As regards to size, a last is what the model maker says it is. And the model maker will stamp any size on a last according to the wishes of the customer.
Bottom line is that length sizes are generally regarded as a relatively good indicator of where the ball of the foot will socket. And that's probably the most critical measurement there is for health and comfort. Sizing up lengthwise to get width is a recipe for ill fitting shoes simply because it forces the foot to bend unnaturally with regard to the "treadline" on the last.
On the other hand, wider lasts in a given size do tend to be longer...although perhaps not much and only in the forepart--which preserves the all important heel to ball length.
Could someone with 43.5 or 44 in F last measure outsole length? I asked for 43.5 and now that I have worn mine a few times, they feel like a 44, which is not my proper F-last size.
Are they longer than your other 43.5s?
Sorry, if my wording confused you.
I previously had a 44, now sold. I ordered a 43.5, but after a few wears they feel very much like a size 44.
Finally got time for some professional studio shots...
which last is that on the dark brown punched captoe? Great looking shoe.
my guess would be F-last
All true, but DWFII ignores the great efforts over the last few decades that have been made to standardize sizes. Check out http://www.satra.co.uk/bulletin/article_view.php?id=877. In fact DWFII responds from the point of view of an artisan. Most of the firms now operating internationally will have their lasts produced according to the satra standards.
I don't know what your point is except as a bone of contention, perhaps.
I recognized that there was a putative standard...what part of "[COLOR=FF0000]And while there is a (supposed) standard...both national and international...[/COLOR]" isn't translating?
I worked closely with a very good modelmaker who started, owned, and ran Global Footwear Solutions (an independent last maker) until about three years ago. He worked at Sterling Last, Jones and Vining, and now works for Nike.
He helped develop several of the leading technology systems used in the footwear industry today including Jones & Vining's Compu-Last (Brockton, MA), Strategies' Romans CAD software (Paris, France), and the lightbeam 3D fit solution suite from corpus.e (Stuttgart, Germany).
Much of what I know about lasts...beyond 40+ years of personal experience...comes from him.
At one point in time he had an online system that would let you plug in a model number and a specific size and you would get a read-out of all the gory details--the length of the last, the heel height, the toe spring, the degree in the heel, the joint girth, the seat width, the tread width, the waist and instep girths, etc. . Or you could reverse the process and plug in desired last lengths or heel seat widths, etc..
No two last models ever read the same in a given size.
Granted, these were models that were grandfathered into the system--models such as old and venerable West End lasts created in the 1930's.
The US lastmaking industry was one of the first and most vociferous in pushing standardization. Much of which serves to homogenize the architecture of lasts so that they may be used in industry (so that machines can do the work)--erasing idiosyncratic "features" and styling details such as folks obsess about here on SF.
It's worth noting as well, that to this day there is a discrepancy between French, British , European and American sizing standards. So any talk of a universal and even remotely absolute standard is premature at best.
mebiuspower - those are both very nice - congrats! I'd love to add a pair of Vass boots to my rotation one of these days.
Is it possible to tell size (incl. width) from markings on a pair of Vass shoes? I have recently bought a pair secondhand that fit very well and want to confirm before ordering any others.
The soles appear to be marked "43 -" (I cannot be sure the dash is original but given it appears neatly on both soles I believe it is), and the inside of the right shoe is marked "0008 12 10" and "ALB1" on separate lines.
They are on the U last and were advertised as a 43, which I was concerned might be to small for my foot, so I am trying to verify whether they are a wide fitting or perhaps a 43.5.
Separate names with a comma.