The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[jeff13007]



His trousers are finished with a silk band, so no need for a cummerbund or vest. The greater problem is that he's wearing them low and his jacket buttons high.

Im not really an expert on the rules of Black Tie but what does his trousers being finished with a silk band have to do with a cummerbund or vest? I was under the impression that the cummerbund was there to catch bread crumbs, and a vest was required traditionally because shirts were considered under garments.

 

[unbelragazzo]



Im not really an expert on the rules of Black Tie but what does his trousers being finished with a silk band have to do with a cummerbund or vest? I was under the impression that the cummerbund was there to catch bread crumbs, and a vest was required traditionally because shirts were considered under garments.

As long as no shirt is showing under where the tux buttons, you're good. Waistcoat, cummerbund, silk band all serve that purpose.

 

[harry2quinn]

I asked this on the quick question thread, thought this would be a good place to get more opinions.

I have a black tie optional holiday party for work tomorrow. Of course, owning a dinner suit (single button, peak lapel, silk facings, patent leather, etc), I'm going to wear it.

But since a) it's black tie optional and b) since most people twice my age will be wearing suits and I want be not too stuffy (while staying relatively true to the black tie uniform), I thought I'd add a tiny bit of creativity. I have a black watch tartan bow tie and cummerbund that I'm planning on, instead of a black bow tie and waistcoat.

Thoughts? I've always thought of BW tartan as a very formal pattern (e.g., trews acceptable in black tie), so would this be considered an "acceptable" creative deviation as a part of an otherwise traditional outfit?

(Note - I also have BW tartan wool pants, but thought that would be overkill)

 

[harry2quinn]



Combined with the two-button front, the three shirt studs are way too much.

I'm with you on the problems with 2 buttons and the high stance, but isn't every exposed button hole supposed to have a stud? Do you mean they're spaced too closely, hence showing three (which is too many)?

 

[Bradford]



I asked this on the quick question thread, thought this would be a good place to get more opinions.
I have a black tie optional holiday party for work tomorrow. Of course, owning a dinner suit (single button, peak lapel, silk facings, patent leather, etc), I'm going to wear it.
But since a) it's black tie optional and b) since most people twice my age will be wearing suits and I want be not too stuffy (while staying relatively true to the black tie uniform), I thought I'd add a tiny bit of creativity. I have a black watch tartan bow tie and cummerbund that I'm planning on, instead of a black bow tie and waistcoat.
Thoughts? I've always thought of BW tartan as a very formal pattern (e.g., trews acceptable in black tie), so would this be considered an "acceptable" creative deviation as a part of an otherwise traditional outfit?
(Note - I also have BW tartan wool pants, but thought that would be overkill)

I think that would be perfecly acceptable and not nearly as obnoxious as the Royal Stewart tartan that you often see people wear at the holidays.

 

[jeff13007]



As long as no shirt is showing under where the tux buttons, you're good. Waistcoat, cummerbund, silk band all serve that purpose.

Yup i get that, but my question was what does the silk band on the trousers have to do with any of that?

 

[unbelragazzo]



Yup i get that, but my question was what does the silk band on the trousers have to do with any of that?

When I've seen this done the silk band is wide enough that it serves as a waist covering. It's basically a cummerbund that's attached to the pants.

 

[unbelragazzo]



When I've seen this done the silk band is wide enough that it serves as a waist covering. It's basically a cummerbund that's attached to the pants.

It looks like from other pictures like his isn't like that though...to me it should be wider.

 

[jeff13007]



When I've seen this done the silk band is wide enough that it serves as a waist covering. It's basically a cummerbund that's attached to the pants.

ahhh got it. Thanks

 

[TimelesStyle]



A couple clearer pictures of Clooney from the Golden Globes:

From a format perspective, I agree one button would have been better than two. However, the real problem is the buttoning position. It is too high by an inch or so,
I think the gorge on the lapels is perfectly fine and classic, but the lapels are too narrow. Wider, longer (by merit of descending to a lower, single buttoning point) ones would cut into the broad expanse of black and imply more shape through his torso. The current lapels look like like they were glued-on afterthoughts.
Did anyone else notice his shirt collar? I actually think it's the ugliest aspect of the whole outfit. The points are too narrow, coming up far too short of the jacket. I realize there is probably no "rule" on the matter, but I think collar points always look better hidden just under one's lapels--with the exception of button-downs. Neither shirtmaker I've used needed to be instructed to check for this. It just looks a lot neater and better pieced-together that way.
Also, no breast pocket. Very odd. No doubt this tux is a designer number.
Combined with the two-button front, the three shirt studs are way too much.
At the end of the day, futzing around with black tie orthodoxy a hair or two doesn't hurt anybody and can actually be a good thing. However, an outfit like Clooney's, despite whatever format transgressions it might commit, is a stylistic hack job. It imparts none of the relaxed elegance a dinner suit should. The pieces do not come together in an aesthetically pleasing manner and demonstrate an utter lack of finesse.

That makes sense about the buttoning stance; were that a suit I don't think that high a stance would look right on anything but a 3-button. That being said, my tux is reasonably high buttoning, which is why I go cummerbund instead of waistcoat (waistcoat would peek out a little but not enough to look "right" without being too high).

Agree with your other points as well.

 

[Testudo_Aubreii]



I asked this on the quick question thread, thought this would be a good place to get more opinions.
I have a black tie optional holiday party for work tomorrow. Of course, owning a dinner suit (single button, peak lapel, silk facings, patent leather, etc), I'm going to wear it.
But since a) it's black tie optional and b) since most people twice my age will be wearing suits and I want be not too stuffy (while staying relatively true to the black tie uniform), I thought I'd add a tiny bit of creativity. I have a black watch tartan bow tie and cummerbund that I'm planning on, instead of a black bow tie and waistcoat.
Thoughts? I've always thought of BW tartan as a very formal pattern (e.g., trews acceptable in black tie), so would this be considered an "acceptable" creative deviation as a part of an otherwise traditional outfit?
(Note - I also have BW tartan wool pants, but thought that would be overkill)

My worry is that the contrast between a solid black/midnight blue SBPL with silk facings and a tartan bow tie is extremely strong, even if it's a subdued dark pattern like Black Watch. My father wears a subdued dark maroon paisley bow tie and cummerbund with his black SB shawl: it just looks odd. Remember that the focus of black tie is the triangle sitting inside the tie and jacket lapels. The tie and lapels are the triangle's borders.

I think blacktieguide is on to something when it says:
"[With a dark dinner jacket] Unlike the waistcoat, cummerbund or handkerchief, a contrasting bow tie is not framed by a dark color and therefore stands out as a glaring distraction."
http://www.blacktieguide.com/Classic/Classic_Alternatives.htm

But I think that's a little too strong. I'd say that a solid true maroon or solid dark indigo tie could work with a dark DJ.

What about just wearing the Black Watch cummerbund with a regular black bow?

Edit: Whoa! Missed that you have Black Watch trews! Why not wear those instead? Regular black cummerbund or vest, regular black tie. Will look perfectly appropriate for black tie optional.

This, minus the tartan vest and Prince Charlie

 

[mordecai]



I haven't read beyond the first post, but I will be attending a black tie art world event in Los Angeles in a couple of weeks. I doubt anyone I know who is going even owns a black suit, let alone a dinner jacket. I will report back with observations. I predict at least one pair of shorts and an unbuttoned shirt.

More to come soon, but I will say that people in Los Angeles love you when you're in a tux.

 

[Digmenow]



More to come soon, but I will say that people in Los Angeles love you when you're in a tux.

[VIDEO]![/VIDEO]

Wait. That's Vegas.

 

[gyalos]

This is from his twittr account, not very clear photo but coat looks correct , bow-tie untidily tied as it should be, and overall nice which is peculiar for a hollywood star anyway.

 

[mrmax]

Gents, what is your experience with midnight vs black facings (grosgrain) with midnight mohair/wool as the base? I believe midnight is preferable for the facings but it seems tailors, at least here in HK, have difficulty obtaining the color. Any ideas on a source for the facings?

I have seen many pics of black facings on a blue coat but none with blue facings. If anyone could oblige or comment it would be much appreciated.