The mafoofan and Thom Browne philosophies are not too unlike.

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by dopey

If this is what you mean by substance, I agree - there is plenty of substance to talk about. It sounds like you know how to wear TB in a way that makes it yours, not his, too.

I read that article some time ago (a few months, I think). I thought it was pretty good and interesting. Not a lot of gibberish in it, either. It was mostly a bio and short history of his business.

I do try to add my own twists (I'd post a picture on these boards but I don't want to be verbally castrated for whatever reason), though there is little doubt who made the suit. Also, I tend to order his suits long (1L to be exact) to give me a bit more room on the sleeves. I need it as the Borrelli shirts I like to wear with it are longer in the sleeves and I still get about 1/4" cuff showing. He likes to wear black wingtips with no socks. I like to wear burgundy Alden cap toes with purple or hunter green socks. I prefer a slim (but not skinny) repp tie vs. a TB of identical suit fabric. And come to think of it, the only way I have never worn TB is with a TB suit, a TB oxford, and a TB tie (I have all 3). It's all Thom Browne, just a little less Browne-y. And I wouldn't be caught dead in some of his runway stuff, neither would he. But it's nice to get a good laugh at some ridiculous clothes every now and then...

 

[bluemagic]

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=102306

 

[apropos]

Originally Posted by bluemagic

I wish I could free your mind. I understand that your position is actually the majority one these days. Few believe in theory anymore. But I think that while there may be some nonsense in theory, there are a lot of things about the world that it does explain, even if the vocabulary is a few steps removed from commonplace reality. I have to go to bed now, but I'll try to explain things better tomorrow.

 

[The False Prophet]

I read an interview with Thom Browne, quizzing him on his inspirations, themes, etc, and he basically said something that boils down to "I make it up as I go along".

Interestingly, another interview with another designer who was similarly overanalysed, Hedi Slimane, featured pretty much the same question and answer. I'm paraphrasing, but he went on to say something like "I'm not going to have a conversation with you about the social need for ripped up jeans. It's not that deep."

 

[eg1]

Originally Posted by The False Prophet

I read an interview with Thom Browne, quizzing him on his inspirations, themes, etc, and he basically said something that boils down to "I make it up as I go along".

Interestingly, another interview with another designer who was similarly overanalysed, Hedi Slimane, featured pretty much the same question and answer. I'm paraphrasing, but he went on to say something like "I'm not going to have a conversation with you about the social need for ripped up jeans. It's not that deep."

Or as Jerry says of Newman, "there isn't more to Newman, there's less" ...

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by eg1

Or as Jerry says of Newman, "there isn't more to Newman, there's less" ...

There's nothing particularly special about an artist minimizing the possible interpretations to his work, they're usually not the ones doing the analysis. This won't change the western world into something beside a civilization of the commentary anytime soon.

 

[dopey]

In today's NYTimes - an article about a woman's visit to the Black Fleece shop downtown:
An Uneasy Hug From Thom Browne

The article is a mixed review, with the author thrilled about the fact that the line exists and the design, but not very happy with how the clothes looked on her.
My wife has had similar experiences.
I happened to be in the BF shop at BB today and had a similar conversation with the saleswoman. Sh, too, said that the cut for women has been a problem, but has been improving.
As an aside, both of the BF salespeople that I have encountered at Brooks Brothers (346) have been really helpful and make shopping there a pleasure. Today, Bella not only searched the stockroom for shirts in my size, but helped locate the one I really wanted at another shop and had it sent to me (and made sure there was no shipping charge). Gabe has also been helpful in hunting down stuff in my size and has a great enthusiasm for TB and the Black Fleece line. If you can get to the store instead of shopping online, it is worth your while. I don't know how they do phone orders, but you might want to try calling and asking for either of them rather than looking online, too.

 

[james_timothy]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Our disconnect stems from your tendency to define all things in terms of reference to other things, so that all things are patchwork reflections of an imagined past.

You have to understand how incredibly powerful this way of thinking is- start with the art Athens built into the Parthenon, then consider that most of the statuary of Greece that we have is what the Romans thought about Greek art, move on to reflect that most of what our culture thinks about Greek and Roman art is really what the British Empire thought about it, yet reflected though our American lens and you begin to understand the layers here.

It is extremely difficult to think about the Greeks without reference to the references and connotations of two thousand years. (When done it makes them seem like weird cousins of the Assyrians.) Thom Brown is making it hard to think about slim gray flannel suits without pulling in connotations of the last 60 years.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

So, the reason Thom Brown gets so much flack on this forum is not necessarily because we just don't see the light, that all things, including our own clothing choices, are merely referential. It might just be that some of us expect more of a rational justification for the things he's doing.

Expecting rationality from artists and fashion designers is not the most rational of acts.

 

[bluemagic]

Originally Posted by james_timothy

You have to understand how incredibly powerful this way of thinking is- start with the art Athens built into the Parthenon, then consider that most of the statuary of Greece that we have is what the Romans thought about Greek art, move on to reflect that most of what our culture thinks about Greek and Roman art is really what the British Empire thought about it, yet reflected though our American lens and you begin to understand the layers here. It is extremely difficult to think about the Greeks without reference to the references and connotations of two thousand years. (When done it makes them seem like weird cousins of the Assyrians.) Thom Brown is making it hard to think about slim gray flannel suits without pulling in connotations of the last 60 years. Expecting rationality from artists and fashion designers is not the most rational of acts.
I think mafoofan knows about this way of thinking, but chooses not to believe in it. I do believe in it.

Originally Posted by dopey

As an aside, both of the BF salespeople that I have encountered at Brooks Brothers (346) have been really helpful and make shopping there a pleasure. Today, Bella not only searched the stockroom for shirts in my size, but helped locate the one I really wanted at another shop and had it sent to me (and made sure there was no shipping charge). Gabe has also been helpful in hunting down stuff in my size and has a great enthusiasm for TB and the Black Fleece line. If you can get to the store instead of shopping online, it is worth your while. I don't know how they do phone orders, but you might want to try calling and asking for either of them rather than looking online, too.
What's the name of the male Black Fleece salesperson at 346 Madison Ave? He's the only one I've met.

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by bluemagic

. . .
What's the name of the male Black Fleece salesperson at 346 Madison Ave? He's the only one I've met.
Gabriel Zeller

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by bluemagic

I think mafoofan knows about this way of thinking, but chooses not to believe in it. I do believe in it.

That's exactly it. Postmodernism appears more like a religion than a philosophy to me; it's a choice to believe something before exhausting all other logical possibilities, without a defensible justification for doing so.

That's right: Foucault sucks.

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

That's exactly it. Postmodernism appears more like a religion than a philosophy to me; it's a choice to believe something before exhausting all other logical possibilities, without a defensible justification for doing so.

That's right: Foucault sucks.

Huh? I'm pretty certain you don't understand postmodernism. Why not go to the source and read some books?

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

That's exactly it. Postmodernism appears more like a religion than a philosophy to me; it's a choice to believe something before exhausting all other logical possibilities, without a defensible justification for doing so.

That's right: Foucault sucks.

Originally Posted by Fuuma

Huh? I'm pretty certain you don't understand postmodernism. Why not go to the source and read some books?

I have never used this smilie before, but now seems like a good time:

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by dopey

I have never used this smilie before, but now seems like a good time:

If there's a philosophical movement where power is diffused and statements non-dogmatic it is postmodernism. All you need to do is read a few books to see there is no one postmodernism but many. This is funny considering mafoo espouses philosophies replete with foundational truths and grand narratives.

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

If there's a philosophical movement where power is diffused and statements non-dogmatic it is postmodernism. All you need to do is read a few books to see there is no one postmodernism but many. This is funny considering mafoo espouses philosophies replete with foundational truths and grand narratives.
Why is it funny that he believes in foundational truths (if he does)? mafoo has already said he rejects postmodernism. That would be consistent. Speaking for myself, I am not sure what I think of postmodernism. I do know that I find postmodernists tiresome.

(love these smilies)