The Ethicist: EBay Return

[DesignerValet]

I would send it back, and refund the seller's money minus the original shipping cost charged and the return postage.

 

[Crane's]

Originally Posted by somatoform

Was it? Part of being a seller, I'd like to think, is that you are aware of your country's postal issues and inform the buyer accordingly, unless it was a complete one-off fluke.

I'd tell him that if he wants the product back to paypal him the cost of shipping back to him and send it so that he can re-list it and try to recoup whatever he can.

I'm an international shipper and I'm aware of the rules. I've had things hit the doorstep of an international buyer in 3 days and in six weeks to the same country. Once you hand it to the PO you are at their mercy period.

Wrong size or not is immaterial in this conversation. It's a matter of ethics and doing the proper thing to resolve a mess. It would be proper for the seller to say they'll pay the shipping back. I'm one of those who would ship it back and then send an email letting the seller know what's up and then ask if they could reimburse me the cost once they get it. If they don't it's on them. At least I know I did what's right.

Good business is good business even if you lose a bit of cash every now and then.

 

[Holdfast]

Of course, the simplest - though morally dubious - thing is just to consider this a case of karma working out and forget about it all. But assuming you want to do the right thing (and starting this thread seems a good sign), this is what I would suggest:

The earlier shipping delay & refund on the dispute are in a sense irrelevant (but see later) since the new situation is equivalent to an eBay sale where the items were delivered correctly, but misrepresented. So essentially this exercise is a hypothetical on what would be the right thing to do under those circumstances. This is a much simpler situation, as eBay has policies for this, that both buyer and seller contracted to at time of the original transaction.

So, I would see what the seller's eBay returns policy normally states.

If they accept returns, you should return the item, under the terms of their returns policy. The seller would refund you the net money, as dictated by the terms of their returns policy. Of course, you've already been recompensed from the earlier dispute, so depending on the terms of their returns policy, you may need to pay shipping. HOWEVER, this is where the delay comes back into play. A 6 month delay is really unreasonable and beyond any fair expectation, regardless of fault, so if the seller's eBay returns policy is that buyer pays return shipping, I would say it's morally justifiable to ask to split those return costs with the seller rather than take the entire hit yourself. I would say that's a fair karmic outcome for all concerned.

If their standard policy is not accept returns, it's still relatively simple. Since it was misrepresented compared to the auction listing, you would have filed a dispute anyway for this and got your money back that way. I don't know if eBay's resolution system would then have demanded you return the item. If yes, you should return it. If no, you're entitled to keep/resell it.

 

[Pawz]

*bows to the wisdom of HoldFast*

 

[rssmsvc]

I would contact the seller and work it out, the thing is that returning it may be the same process for him in reverse where it gets stuck or outright stolen in Italian customs or the seller ends up paying duty on it.

The best thing is to contact the seller , explain the situation and if he is a jerk - end it.

 

[JohnGalt]

deleted

 

[JohnGalt]

Originally Posted by Holdfast

Of course, the simplest - though morally dubious - thing is just to consider this a case of karma working out and forget about it all. But assuming you want to do the right thing (and starting this thread seems a good sign), this is what I would suggest:

The earlier shipping delay & refund on the dispute are in a sense irrelevant (but see later) since the new situation is equivalent to an eBay sale where the items were delivered correctly, but misrepresented. So essentially this exercise is a hypothetical on what would be the right thing to do under those circumstances. This is a much simpler situation, as eBay has policies for this, that both buyer and seller contracted to at time of the original transaction.

So, I would see what the seller's eBay returns policy normally states.

If they accept returns, you should return the item, under the terms of their returns policy. The seller would refund you the net money, as dictated by the terms of their returns policy. Of course, you've already been recompensed from the earlier dispute, so depending on the terms of their returns policy, you may need to pay shipping. HOWEVER, this is where the delay comes back into play. A 6 month delay is really unreasonable and beyond any fair expectation, regardless of fault, so if the seller's eBay returns policy is that buyer pays return shipping, I would say it's morally justifiable to ask to split those return costs with the seller rather than take the entire hit yourself. I would say that's a fair karmic outcome for all concerned.

If their standard policy is not accept returns, it's still relatively simple. Since it was misrepresented compared to the auction listing, you would have filed a dispute anyway for this and got your money back that way. I don't know if eBay's resolution system would then have demanded you return the item. If yes, you should return it. If no, you're entitled to keep/resell it.

The seller's return policy in this case is completely irrelevant - they sent him the wrong item, so the buyer should have nothing out of pocket.

 

[Crane's]

Originally Posted by Holdfast

Of course, the simplest - though morally dubious - thing is just to consider this a case of karma working out and forget about it all. But assuming you want to do the right thing (and starting this thread seems a good sign), this is what I would suggest:

The earlier shipping delay & refund on the dispute are in a sense irrelevant (but see later) since the new situation is equivalent to an eBay sale where the items were delivered correctly, but misrepresented. So essentially this exercise is a hypothetical on what would be the right thing to do under those circumstances. This is a much simpler situation, as eBay has policies for this, that both buyer and seller contracted to at time of the original transaction.

So, I would see what the seller's eBay returns policy normally states.

If they accept returns, you should return the item, under the terms of their returns policy. The seller would refund you the net money, as dictated by the terms of their returns policy. Of course, you've already been recompensed from the earlier dispute, so depending on the terms of their returns policy, you may need to pay shipping. HOWEVER, this is where the delay comes back into play. A 6 month delay is really unreasonable and beyond any fair expectation, regardless of fault, so if the seller's eBay returns policy is that buyer pays return shipping, I would say it's morally justifiable to ask to split those return costs with the seller rather than take the entire hit yourself. I would say that's a fair karmic outcome for all concerned.

If their standard policy is not accept returns, it's still relatively simple. Since it was misrepresented compared to the auction listing, you would have filed a dispute anyway for this and got your money back that way. I don't know if eBay's resolution system would then have demanded you return the item. If yes, you should return it. If no, you're entitled to keep/resell it.

Originally Posted by Pawz

*bows to the wisdom of HoldFast*

There is no wisdom in what was written.

Originally Posted by rssmsvc

I would contact the seller and work it out, the thing is that returning it may be the same process for him in reverse where it gets stuck or outright stolen in Italian customs or the seller ends up paying duty on it.

The best thing is to contact the seller , explain the situation and if he is a jerk - end it.

End it and do what? Keep the item over a shipping expense? The OP asked what the ethical thing was to do and so far it seems I'm the only one who understands this.

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

This is what you should do. Why are people making it more complicated than that? The buyer should end up whole in the end, since he did nothing wrong.

You better re read what you quoted.

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

The seller's return policy in this case is completely irrelevant - they sent him the wrong item, so the buyer should have nothing out of pocket.

Seller's policies and Ebay policies don't matter anymore. The buyer was made whole on a dispute over the item not being shipped to him by PP. End of discussion. 6 months later it arrives and it's discovered that the seller was telling the truth about when he shipped. Since PP was last in the chain and initiated the refund then what happens next is more than likely covered by their policy. It is almost certainty that the item has to be returned to the seller in this case one way or another.

 

[augustin]

The problem with sending it back is that, from what we know of the mail, it may never arrive. If the OP contacts the seller, they might agree on an entirely different course of action; so don't just up and send it.

 

[rssmsvc]

Originally Posted by Crane's

End it and do what? Keep the item over a shipping expense? The OP asked what the ethical thing was to do and so far it seems I'm the only one who understands this.

Who said anything about keeping it , and I never mentioned anything about shipping costs. You need to take your personal bias as a "seller" out of it. If he explains the situation to the seller and seller continues to be rude, you are insane to think that he has some sort of obligation to keep working with him. Italy particularly is a pain to deal with , where they outright ban or seize certain items and might even exercise a duty on the seller for receipt so the seller would be out more than he is now.

The best advice is still to contact the seller and see how he wants to handle it.

There are all sorts of things he could do , sell it and donate the cash to charity or send the cash from the sale to the seller. I find it insane that you would think that if someone is being rude and disrespectful to you that you have to continue to do business with them. You don't.

 

[coltboy75]

Originally Posted by Crane's

Wrong answer. OP received a refund. The right thing to do is contact the seller and see what they want to do about it.

+1

 

[idfnl]

If you got your refund, then you should send it back but first contact the seller and agree to get him to pay for shipping.

 

[Crane's]

Originally Posted by rssmsvc

Who said anything about keeping it , and I never mentioned anything about shipping costs. You need to take your personal bias as a "seller" out of it. If he explains the situation to the seller and seller continues to be rude, you are insane to think that he has some sort of obligation to keep working with him. Italy particularly is a pain to deal with , where they outright ban or seize certain items and might even exercise a duty on the seller for receipt so the seller would be out more than he is now.

The best advice is still to contact the seller and see how he wants to handle it.

There are all sorts of things he could do , sell it and donate the cash to charity or send the cash from the sale to the seller. I find it insane that you would think that if someone is being rude and disrespectful to you that you have to continue to do business with them. You don't.

I find it insane that in a conversation about ethics you're talking about noble yet unethical solutions.

 

[Chauncey]

The package should have been refused. This would have resulted in the item being returned to sender (possibly with postage due) and would have taken you out of the equation entirely. Being that you still had interest in the item (even after 6 moths -so time is not a factor), you opened the package. The question to me is if the item had been the correct size, would we be hearing from you? This because the obvious answer is that you contact the seller and the negotiate return of his property. I think you know this from kindergarten. Due unto others...

 

[ZON_JR]

Originally Posted by dv3

I bet tweedydon is lying

Tweedy don not tell the absolute truth? Unthinkable!