The End of the Sartorial Road

[RSS]

I’m thinking back to having talked about this back when. A number of members suggested depression.

I’m much less depressed now realizing it wasn’t depression then but rather the natural order of things.

 

[St1X]

Gosh. Why do you people care what someone wears somewhere?!

 

[Texasmade]

I’ve worn lederhosen for Oktoberfest in Munich. It felt like a costume for Oktoberfest that everyone else was wearing so I didn’t feel weird wearing it.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

This is just bullshit. I made no such claim. My statement was branching off Texas' statement that as an Asian he thought it was weird to wear another nation's dress. I was pointing out that even very Japanese-adjacent but not Japanese Asians felt the same, despite arguably feeling more culturally attached to Japan than they do to Taiwan (or certainly China).

This makes no claim about them or I having "special insight" into Japanese culture.

I wouldn't protest too much if I were you. I can read what you wrote. I also know my East Asian history (being a sometime scholar of the area), and your family-in-laws Japanese imperial connections are a really very odd thing upon which to base an appeal to authority - and that's definitely what it reads like. Had my wife been drinking tea when I read it to her she would have spat it out, she could scarcely believe it. As well as being Japanese, she's also a scholar by the way, and works on colonialism and indigenous peoples, so she was even more gobsmacked. I gave you a European analogy to help you out and I think it's a pretty good one - @gs77 got it. If you still don't realise how odd it your post was then there's very little I can do for you. See you in the funny papers...

 

[ValidusLA]

I wouldn't protest too much if I were you. I can read what you wrote. I also know my East Asian history (being a sometime scholar of the area), and your family-in-laws Japanese imperial connections are a really very odd thing upon which to base an appeal to authority - and that's definitely what it reads like. Had my wife been drinking tea when I read it to her she would have spat it out, she could scarcely believe it. As well as being Japanese, she's also a scholar by the way, and works on colonialism and indigenous peoples, so she was even more gobsmacked. I gave you a European analogy to help you out and I think it's a pretty good one - @gs77 got it. If you still don't realise how odd it your post was then there's very little I can do for you. See you in the funny papers...

But you are saying I made claims I never made.

My point was non Japanese wearing kimono around the streets of Japan is costumey and weird, and white guys wearing it look like weebs. I responded with views about my in laws and how they would respond to the habit in response to another Asian gentleman saying he agreed it was weird.

I know this type of baiting is catnip to the Professoriat.

Considering what I've seen of you throwing around accusations bordering on racism charges on this board, I'm surprised you don't view white guys wearing yukata as cultural appropriation.

 

[dieworkwear]

I'm not Japanese and don't know anything about living in Japan, but have always felt a little uncomfortable seeing non-Asians wearing things like Visvim's noragi (and the many other fashion iterations). Would not call it cultural appropriation or racist. I just think it looks kinda corny.

Same with other Asian-derived styles, like Needles' "Chinese button" shirts. I can't shake the weeb association from my head.

 

[ValidusLA]

I'm not Japanese and don't know anything about living in Japan, but have always felt a little uncomfortable seeing non-Asians wearing things like Visvim's noragi (and the many other fashion iterations). Would not call it cultural appropriation or racist. I just think it looks kinda corny.

Same with other Asian-derived styles, like Needles' "Chinese button" shirts. I can't shake the weeb association from my head.

To be clear, I don't think it's racist or appropriation either.

I think its weird looking and weeby.

I was saying I'm surprised he doesn't think it's appropriation.

 

[FlyingHorker]

it's interesting when a piece of clothing can cause revulsion due to looking too 'weaby' or possibly cultural appropriation.

I think it could be due to to how commonplace it is.

The popular drawstring trousers I've seen are essentially the pyjama(pants) half of kurta pyjamas worn in India. Pyjamas derivations are so ingrained globally, that it doesn't even ring as cultural associations with the average person.

 

[dukenukem4ever]

I only just read Validus' post, the one you're replying to, and I can't believe that you can have Japanese connections and not appreciate how way-out there it is. He's basically saying that his in-laws being far-right neo-imperialists (and Taiwanese to boot) gives them some special insight into wider Japanese culture and what's acceptable in contemporary Japanese society. Frankly it's one of the most jaw-droppingly weird things I've ever seen argued here and I'm amazed no-one's picked this up. the equivalent would be if I said my in-laws were Hungarian Nazi-sympathizers so they really know traditional German culture...

And BTW, I am sure you know that there is an enormous difference between formal kimono - which I have never worn, mainly because I have never had an occasion to (I do have a complete set gifted to me by my wife's uncle and aunt) - and things like yukata or jinbei, which is what the original conversation was about. I wouldn't wander around dressed like in full kimono, and for that matter, hardly any Japanese men would these days. But why would you feel weird wearing yukata on jinbei in super hot days in summer? Have you never been to an onsen town? it would be weird if you didn't wear yukata in Kinosaki (or wherever). What about sutetoko? What about sashiko or boro? And what about labels who make clothes influenced by traditional styles, like Sou-Sou? Or plenty of what Kapital or Visvim make?

It seems to me that, by your own account, your feelings are influenced by a sense of insecurity and being misunderstood. I get it. My Japanese is functional rather than fluent. And anyone who's spent long periods of time living in a different culture has felt that way sometimes, and of course I'm particularly conscious of difference - after all, I do cross-cultural social research. But I have a lot of close friends and colleagues (and in-laws) in Japan, and I have never come across anyone who had a problem with non-Japanese wearing Japanese clothes. After all, Japan may be the most magpie culture in the world and shamelessly appropriates anything and everything, absorbing, remaking it and more. It always seems to be non-Japanese (or some lunatic nationalist fringe) who have the issue with Japanese clothes, or indeed with making up all kinds of other imaginary norms of behaviour in Japan, when there are more than enough actual norms to worry about already...

I have no issues with anyone wearing what they want of course ! I just feel it is weird , just my opinion. I have never felt comfortable wearing yukata and just stuck to my linen shorts and linen shirts which is what I saw many many many more people in Japan wear versus Yukata even in the dead of summer.
again no issues with anyone wearing what they want I simply think it’s weird that’s all. I can feel that it is weird right?
you’re right about insecurity perhaps. I remember taking Japanese lessons a long long long long time ago in Kobe. Every time I spoke Japanese it felt so out of place for me. I could never master it. But when I lived in Taipei for several years for work and learned mandarin on the side it was quite easy for me to pick up and I use it regularly communicating with business partners in China.
no idea what we are talking about anymore lol.
As for the Taiwanese wife’s relatives being brainwashed by Japanese imperialists … errrrrrr I didn’t have any comment on that. My bad.

 

[smittycl]

@lordsuperb @hpreston @TheSuitBurnsBetter @professor @Kangnamstyles @Ambulance Chaser

Are you guys in this thread? I’m feeling the pull even though I’ll likely commission one more MTM shortly.

 

[lordsuperb]

@lordsuperb @hpreston @TheSuitBurnsBetter @professor @Kangnamstyles @Ambulance Chaser

Are you guys in this thread? I’m feeling the pull even though I’ll likely commission one more MTM shortly.

Although we go to the end of the road, still I can't let goooooooo......

 

[comrade]

I’ve worn lederhosen for Oktoberfest in Munich. It felt like a costume for Oktoberfest that everyone else was wearing so I didn’t feel weird wearing it.

I was in Munich during Oktoberfest.The only thing Germanic that I wore was a pair
of Ludwig Reiter suede derbies, aside from my SS dagger.

 

[hpreston]

@lordsuperb @hpreston @TheSuitBurnsBetter @professor @Kangnamstyles @Ambulance Chaser

Are you guys in this thread? I’m feeling the pull even though I’ll likely commission one more MTM shortly.

I’ve popped in here from time to time. I don’t think I’m at the end of the road yet. I’m certainly slowing on purchasing, but still have a long term wishlist.

Due to space I am in the one in, one out phase (praise LuxeSwap)

 

[smittycl]

I’ve popped in here from time to time. I don’t think I’m at the end of the road yet. I’m certainly slowing on purchasing, but still have a long term wishlist.

Due to space I am in the one in, one out phase (praise LuxeSwap)

Yeah, I do that as well. Just sent them two boxes of stuff and am eyeing a tailoring purge at some point.

Getting to the point where all bases are basically covered and anything new is just nice to have rather than a necessity.

 

[lordsuperb]

Yeah, I do that as well. Just them two boxes of stuff and am eyeing a tailoring purge at some point.

Getting to the point where all bases are basically covered and anything new is just nice to have rather than a necessity.

I am technically there; I need to purchase a few pair of pants but I have all the basics and wants (purple tragedy) covered. Will look to purchase a few tailoring things from NMWA when I have a major itch to scratch.