The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[masugu]

Can you expand on what you mean when you say, "...somehow since I met Glasgow Sr once and hearing different stories I get a weird feeling..."

You met the company owner once, and?
You got a weird feeling - like a hot flash, or?

 

[dauster]

Can you expand on what you mean when you say, "...somehow since I met Glasgow Sr once and hearing different stories I get a weird feeling..."

You met the company owner once, and?
You got a weird feeling - like a hot flash, or?

What I meant was that I had inquired about a variety of options and different styles beforehand and was expecting to discuss a potential commission when got to my appointment with Glasgow Sr but I felt like he couldn’t be bothered. He was not rude but you could tell he was not interested in “wasting” too much of his time in discussing different options and styles with me. On top of that I have heard from members of that forum and from a good friend about less than stellar experiences when it comes to fit and final products.
Lastly, I saw several shoemakers calling GC out for copying another makers styles without credit when they introduced a new model recently- I think Vivian Saskia Wittmer (shoemaker in Florence) was one of them on Instagram. It was a summer loafer from Baudoin & Lange they copied 1:1.

 

[wurger]

What I meant was that I had inquired about a variety of options and different styles beforehand and was expecting to discuss a potential commission when got to my appointment with Glasgow Sr but I felt like he couldn’t be bothered. He was not rude but you could tell he was not interested in “wasting” too much of his time in discussing different options and styles with me. On top of that I have heard from members of that forum and from a good friend about less than stellar experiences when it comes to fit and final products.
Lastly, I saw several shoemakers calling GC out for copying another makers styles without credit when they introduced a new model recently- I think Vivian Saskia Wittmer (shoemaker in Florence) was one of them on Instagram. It was a summer loafer from Baudoin & Lange they copied 1:1.

I don't think it's fair to critise GC on using certain designs; as a bespoke commission, you go up to GC and say I want this, make it look nice and comfortable on my feet please. Each maker will incorporate their own signatures as they use their own lasts, leading to variances on the pattern proportions.

Just look at at the amount of Dovers and Galway copies around, I don't see people complaining about them. Those patterns were around before EG, but it's definitely the EG models that made it popular on SF. I even remember in the early days of SF, Dover was the ugly duckling of EG, some members call it frankenstein stitches, you also have members posting now days that they were never warm to the split-toe, now they want a pair, SF group think doing wonders here.

I know in your example, other makers called GC out, can you please provide the IG link, I do believe you, but I want to see that copied shoe. From reading on the @DWFII threads, I thought it's actually very hard to copy another maker 1:1, unless you are working with the same lasts.

Inside one of those threads, people were talking about how some Japanese makers were replicating the Tuczek aesthetic, which for a shoe consumer like me, I can see their point about chisel toes. @ntempleman then schooled us by stating they are very different. "That sample has a similar chisel toe to the Tuczek above it, but they're quite different - the front on the Tuczek is much much shorter, as was the typical style of the day. Makes a big difference." A professional can pick out things that a layman can easily miss or just don't know.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

Lovely shapes on Instagram. I wonder what she is getting for support on lasts, outworkers, etc.

Emiko is a lastmaker and do bottom making, her husband is a closer (and I believe also do making). No need for support there until things grow.

I don't think it's fair to critise GC on using certain designs; as a bespoke commission, you go up to GC and say I want this, make it look nice and comfortable on my feet please. Each maker will incorporate their own signatures as they use their own lasts, leading to variances on the pattern proportions.

Just look at at the amount of Dovers and Galway copies around, I don't see people complaining about them. Those patterns were around before EG, but it's definitely the EG models that made it popular on SF. I even remember in the early days of SF, Dover was the ugly duckling of EG, some members call it frankenstein stitches, you also have members posting now days that they were never warm to the split-toe, now they want a pair, SF group think doing wonders here.

I know in your example, other makers called GC out, can you please provide the IG link, I do believe you, but I want to see that copied shoe. From reading on the @DWFII threads, I thought it's actually very hard to copy another maker 1:1, unless you are working with the same lasts.

Inside one of those threads, people were talking about how some Japanese makers were replicating the Tuczek aesthetic, which for a shoe consumer like me, I can see their point about chisel toes. @ntempleman then schooled us by stating they are very different. "That sample has a similar chisel toe to the Tuczek above it, but they're quite different - the front on the Tuczek is much much shorter, as was the typical style of the day. Makes a big difference." A professional can pick out things that a layman can easily miss or just don't know.

It was a RTW model Cleverley did. You can copy shoes (I've been writing about why here), then it can be done in different ways, and there was many that didn't feel that it wasn't in this case.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Lastly, I saw several shoemakers calling GC out for copying another makers styles without credit when they introduced a new model recently- I think Vivian Saskia Wittmer (shoemaker in Florence) was one of them on Instagram. It was a summer loafer from Baudoin & Lange they copied 1:1.

You might be able to copy an original, but you cannot copy a copy. And the B&L 'Sagan' loafer is a copy of the famous 'Belgian Loafer' which was created by Henry Bendel in the early 1950s. Taken up by an arty New York elite (allegedly Bernie Maddoff had dozens of pairs), they are sold to this day from a single shop.

Three of the City's Coolest Designers on How They Wear New York's Oldest-School Loafer

Belgian Shoes have quietly gone from WASP staple to the go-to footwear for a new generation of decidedly more punk rock creatives.

www.gq.com

Nothing against B&L's interpretation of this iconic design (I've got a pair myself), but they are a reinterpretation or tribute version (polite for 'copy') of another person's work.

Why that fake outrage at Cleverley's 'reinterpretation' or 'tribute version'?.

 

[masugu]

Thanks for your response.

I felt a bit of some of what you describe when i first started going to their trunk shows. I’m sure they get a lot of tire kickers who don’t buy and waste their time. Not to make excuses...at first i did think there was a little stodginess injected into the process, but assumed it was the culture.

George Sr. is also first and foremost, a salesman. Truth be told my intro to Gazino & Girling felt similar in terms of interaction. I attributed any sort attitude to the culture...or perhaps given G&Gs prior links to Cleverley, there was some baggage on the part of one of the owners when he saw me wearing a pair of Cleverleys.

I have certainly had them rectify issues over the last few years...its an old school industry / company and i don't have the luxury of popping into their store to chat and look in on orders since I am not local.

I cant speak to the copying of styles...

Oh well. It’s an odd / old-world trade. I guess the quirks and all make it interesting enough to be an alternative to the RTW experience.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

You might be able to copy an original, but you cannot copy a copy. And the B&L 'Sagan' loafer is a copy of the famous 'Belgian Loafer' which was created by Henry Bendel in the early 1950s. Taken up by an arty New York elite (allegedly Bernie Maddoff had dozens of pairs), they are sold to this day from a single shop.

Three of the City's Coolest Designers on How They Wear New York's Oldest-School Loafer

Belgian Shoes have quietly gone from WASP staple to the go-to footwear for a new generation of decidedly more punk rock creatives.

www.gq.com

Nothing against B&L's interpretation of this iconic design (I've got a pair myself), but they are a reinterpretation or tribute version (polite for 'copy') of another person's work.

Why that fake outrage at Cleverley's 'reinterpretation' or 'tribute version'?.

I believe Baudoin has his take without the leather bow and some other feat as his original, don’t remember the details. The Belgian loafer is not exactly a secret... ?

 

[bengal-stripe]

I believe Baudoin has his take without the leather bow and some other feat as his original, don’t remember the details. The Belgian loafer is not exactly a secret... ?

Yes, B&L does not repeat the mini-bow of the original design. But all the other features, low vamp, triangular, pointed tongue, French-bound apron are very similar. (But of course, using a tape measure you'll find plenty of differences.) After all, 'Belgian' does not refer to some historical tradition. Belgian folks did not wear that design for centuries, it just happened the factory producing the shoes is located in Belgium.

My problem is not B&L copying an iconic design, it's them claiming the design to be an original.

 

[dauster]

Yes, B&L does not repeat the mini-bow of the original design. But all the other features, low vamp, triangular, pointed tongue, French-bound apron are very similar. (But of course, using a tape measure you'll find plenty of differences.) After all, 'Belgian' does not refer to some historical tradition. Belgian folks did not wear that design for centuries, it just happened the factory producing the shoes is located in Belgium.

My problem is not B&L copying an iconic design, it's them claiming the design to be an original.

Yes, I believe that was one of the main issues GC claiming the design to be original. But ultimately who cares, there is certainly an argument to made that GC offers great value in the world of bespoke and it seems like they rectified issues for most people here when things went wrong. Let's leave it at that.

Somebody asked me to send the link to the instagram page about the copying. I can't because it was only posted in stories hence they disappear after 24 hours.

 

[Nick V.]

You might be able to copy an original, but you cannot copy a copy. And the B&L 'Sagan' loafer is a copy of the famous 'Belgian Loafer' which was created by Henry Bendel in the early 1950s. Taken up by an arty New York elite (allegedly Bernie Maddoff had dozens of pairs), they are sold to this day from a single shop.

Three of the City's Coolest Designers on How They Wear New York's Oldest-School Loafer

Belgian Shoes have quietly gone from WASP staple to the go-to footwear for a new generation of decidedly more punk rock creatives.

www.gq.com

Nothing against B&L's interpretation of this iconic design (I've got a pair myself), but they are a reinterpretation or tribute version (polite for 'copy') of another person's work.

Why that fake outrage at Cleverley's 'reinterpretation' or 'tribute version'?.

That shop is a half a block away from my shop. They recently completely renovated and it just reopened a few months ago. To me you have to give credit where credit is due.....
They basically took one style. The same style for men and women. Because of the different colors and leathers,fabrics,materials there are literally 100's of variations of that same shoe which I was told are mostly in stock in their NYC location. I know it's a bit off topic but,simple concept, ingenious and popular.

 

[ntempleman]

Think it was more that they used the same black suede/grey nubuck alligator vamp/ black calf beading combo which was most on-the-nose

 

[dan'l]

Speaking of Belgian loafers, I was in Antwerp earlier this year, pre-shutdown (oh, how I miss the days of traveling!). I visited a menswear store and told the salesman (in English) that I was looking for a pair of Belgian loafers. I realized that my request sounded silly, like asking for ”German beer” while in Munich, but I really didn’t know how else to phrase it. As you can imagine, he stared at me in disbelief and was unsure how to answer. I browsed their shoe section myself and quietly let myself out.

 

[Guccinski L.V.]

Speaking of Belgian loafers, I was in Antwerp earlier this year, pre-shutdown (oh, how I miss the days of traveling!). I visited a menswear store and told the salesman (in English) that I was looking for a pair of Belgian loafers. I realized that my request sounded silly, like asking for ”German beer” while in Munich, but I really didn’t know how else to phrase it. As you can imagine, he stared at me in disbelief and was unsure how to answer. I browsed their shoe section myself and quietly let myself out.

I think you were really lucky. Usually Flemish yell "Speak Dutch!!!" the moment they hear any foreign language.
Meanwhile their more industrious cousins across the border are fine with anyone speaking English. Go figure.

 

[Concordia]

At least you weren’t asking for French fries.

 

[jiredell]

So, having already been bit by the bespoke suit bug, I am now considering bespoke shoes. I am thinking of budgeting around $4k for this. Does that seem about right?