Sydney or Melbourne bespoke suit

[Sator]

John Cutler will politely show you to the door if you ask for that. The only one I know who is flexible enough to do it is Adamo. That mini skirted coat looks like a Coco Chanel special:

 

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Sator

John Cutler will politely show you to the door if you ask for that. The only one I know who is flexible enough to do it is Adamo. That mini skirted coat looks like a Coco Chanel special:
Haha ... I'm glad you like it. Everyone has their own taste. I'm relatively athletic and young, so I have a nice slim body with large shoulders so it suits me. That picture ... I got it from the GQ website in their "top suits makeover" feature, where they pick out random men in New York and do them over. Most of the guys before had baggy stuff, and the after-shot ... they were all pretty much dressed in slim fit or well fitted, and they all look better IMO. Thanks Sator, appreciate your experience/comments.

 

[Sator]

Let me warn you, however, that Adamo will talk you out of the short skirt. He will say it makes you look short or that it looks like a women's coat. Don't say I didn't warn you when he does. I say: listen to him. Every tailor in town will pretty much say the same thing. You will have to press really hard and insist on it like crazy for them to let that one out of the cutting room.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by Sator

Furthermore, there is the claim that Rubinacci make a drape cut sack coat. When I quizzed Iammatt about details of construction, it confirmed that it is not really a proper drape cut at all. The fullness in the chest is as much a function of ironwork and the deployment of darts in what is a front-cut lounge coat. It even has an underarm dart extending into the armscye - which should not be there on a proper drape (?droop) cut lounge.

What these American forumites are describing with their idealised A&S and Neapolitan soft-drape cut coat is actually a stereotypical American sack coat with a loose and sacky cut and unpadded shoulders. With the demise of the American school of "custom tailoring", Americans now search the globe looking for the lost American sack coat. Please, don't go following them like a pack of lemmings.

Hmm. I think you are taking a confusion of terms for a confusion of ideas. People may use 'drape' and 'drape cut' inaccurately, but I don't think anybody equates a Rubinacci jacket that has drape with a "drape cut sack coat."

 

[Sator]

Matt, there really is a misconception going around that Rubinacci cut a sacky drape cut coat, and that alongside A&S they represent one of the leading practitioners of the drape cut. There are LL posts where people talk about A&S and Rubinacci in the same breath. I'm glad you don't suffer that misunderstanding.

And, yes, there is some fullness in the chest with a Rubinacci, I can see that too. I personally wouldn't even call it drape. It is more to give the coat a "chesty effect" as some old cutting manuals call it, rather than to give the coat fitting ease - which is what real drape is about. The front cut (dart extended to base of skirt + under lapel dart + ironwork) also accentuates the fullness in the chest. The ideal of having a full chest is as old as tailoring, dating way back before the age of drape. It seems everyone wants to find drape in coats, and imagines it where it doesn't really exist.

 

[Reckoner]

So I'll give Adamo a visit today or tomorrow. He seems the best man for the job. Here are more pictures of the sort of style that I'm looking for. I've looked all over Sydney (David Jones, Henry Bucks, Hugo Boss stores, Anthony Squires, O'Connel St, Pitt St Mall stores etc etc) to find a more european style, all to my disappointment. Department stores usually try and predict what the masses will buy, and manufacture those in volume. Original posted picture:

Some before and afters: Before & After:

Before & After:

Before & After:

Before & After:

This looks a bit too feminine to be honest ... Some nice general grey/charcoal suit looks :

I also really like the last image on the right, that and the top/original posted picture is exactly what I'm after. Adamo is the man for this job? Anyone have any opinions? Or do I just have funny taste?

 

[tchoy]

Adamo is the man for this job? Anyone have any opinions?
Or do I just have funny taste?

[/quote]

Adamo won't have any problems making a slim fitting suit. he is making a single button suit for me now that is going to be quite fitted. I have to agree with Sator that he won't be happy making a suit that is too short. show him a picture of what you want and listen to him. You can adjust skirt length during fitting stages. If it's your first bespoke suit you don't want something that is too fashionable you won't able to wear in two years time.

 

[TC (Houston)]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Some before and afters:

Who knew a pocket square could make so much of a difference?

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by Sator

Matt, there really is a misconception going around that Rubinacci cut a sacky drape cut coat, and that alongside A&S they represent one of the leading practitioners of the drape cut. There are LL posts where people talk about A&S and Rubinacci in the same breath. I'm glad you don't suffer that misunderstanding.

Well, I have the vague understanding that a drape cut is a different way of cutting a jacket, not merely an issue of fullness. But that goes directly to my point. Most of us are not even remotely as knowledgeable about tailoring as you. When people compare A&S to Rubinacci, they may not be doing so with reference to the cut at all--even if they use the term 'drape cut'. More likely, they are talking about appearance, and I can clearly see the basis for comparison in that respect. Drape cut or not, both are 'soft' and have natural shoulders; both have fullness in the chest. If I did not wear Rubinacci, I might turn to A&S.

Originally Posted by Sator

The ideal of having a full chest is as old as tailoring, dating way back before the age of drape. It seems everyone wants to find drape in coats, and imagines it where it doesn't really exist.

Again, whatever you want to call it, the fullness in a jacket is plainly distinguishable in its own right. Preference for this fullness may have nothing to do with a preference for a drape cut, as correctly defined.

 

[misterjase]

what about a suit from Cantarelli? the look is continental. i am sure the cut is slimmer than most. hence, could be close to what is wanted.

 

[AndrewRogers]

Originally Posted by misterjase

what about a suit from Cantarelli? the look is continental. i am sure the cut is slimmer than most. hence, could be close to what is wanted.

Indeed, do not discount RTW so quickly.

 

[Journeyman]

Originally Posted by AndrewRogers

Indeed, do not discount RTW so quickly.

+1.

If you really want something particular (such as Sator - he has very particular tastes and is very knowledgeable and able to explain precisely what he wants) then by all means, go the bespoke route.

However, there are plenty of RTW suits around that should meet your needs (even given the paucity of choice available in Australia). I believe that Harrolds stocks Caruso - have you had a look there and tried it on? They certainly have a slim cut. Also, I don't know if RL Black Label is available in Sydney but if so, it could be worth trying on (and it is made by Caruso). Herringbone has a slim cut, too, and their jackets tend to have a fairly cutaway "skirt" that is not too long.

Also, if you prefer a short skirt to your jacket, you can usually have it taken up by an inch or so on an RTW suit.

 

[Sator]

There is, in my view, a yawning gap in the difference between a slim cut bespoke lounge suit and an altered RTW one. I can tell you that a tailor with a good eye like Adamo can make a huge difference, especially for a customer who knows few technical details about cutting and tailoring.

Reckoner obviously wants a very fashionable looking slim cut coat and trousers. His youthful exuberance and desire for one or two excessively fashiony details would be well tempered by an experienced tailor. But for a really fitted coat to work, and look elegant, in my mind it has to be bespoke so that it follows every contour. Fiddling around with RTW is pot-luck. I have immeasurably more confidence in Adamo than in the gamble that the RTW route will involve.

The thing about Adamo is that in the 1970's he made a lot of very fashion forward stuff. That was his speciality. I've seen old photos of stuff that look like something from a Brioni '70s catalogue. He is still very up to date with what is fashionable, but his years of experience engenders a much more mature garment of a man who has seen fleeting fashion fall by the wayside. Still, he always has an eye for ensuring that the cut is never staid, and always elegant.

 

[Reckoner]

Okay so I visited Adamo yesterday. Very knowledgeable and experienced. So I've gone through the process and all. I took me a long time to decide what fabric. So he told me to think about it and come back again. So I'm looking at the fabric books in the 2500-3200 range. I can't decide between: 1. solid dark grey/charcoal 2. some textured dark grey with patterns/textured (not pinstripe) --> the textured patterns makes it look classy. Like this but more striking/texture:

So I'm a bit inexperienced with regards to fabric ... question: Which fabric quality/book in general? I'm looking at the Dormeiul and Harrison book right now ... they're in my price range. I would like the "summer" range, b/c they're lighter and shinier ... but it's out of my price range at this point. I think it's important to keep in mind this principle: "fit comes before fabric" This is a business suit, so dark grey/charcoal is a good color. But I just don't want it to be plain and solid, if that's the case then I could have just went and bought a Zegna off the rack with alterations and it would look similar ... and b/c Adamo said it looks like you're a school boy if you just get it plain/solid and you can't tell that it's cheap or expensive from afar .... Anyone got any questions about the whole experience please ask. Or advice ... feel free to give it too. Regards. (BTW ... here's a video of the tailoring process or what life is like as a Saville Row tailior in the UK; it's called "Tailor Made in Cumbria": http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ade+in+cumbria

 

[Sator]

Go for the Harrisons or Lesser books.