************* STYLEFORUM X EPAULET NEW YORK TRAINERS/SNEAKERS **************

[bluedanish]

i wonder when we'll see an udpate with break-in pics and when these are expected to arrive.

 

[eddievddr10]

Check your email

 

[Epaulet]

Hey guys,

By now, most of you should have received a personal email from us. We're going through all of them, and we should be able to contact everyone by the end of today. Here's the text that you'll see below.

It's both regretful and embarassing that we're not able to fulfill our side of the project as promised. Take your time and read through everything when you have a moment. I'll be on hand here continuously to answer any questions that you have. We'll most likely have a discussion in the Epaulet Affiliate Thread as well

Thanks,
Mike

***********************

Dear Friend

Happy New Year and I hope that all is well with you. I'm afraid that I have some bad news.

We will not be able to deliver the Shell Cordovan Trainers as promised.

In short: this project was initially coordinated through a US-based agent. They created the sample shoes, quoted the prices, and served as our only contact to the factory. The samples that we received, photographed, and presented were not actual shell cordovan - but a glazed cowhide meant to look like horse leather. I discovered this six weeks ago upon my factory visit, and we've been scrambling to find some workable alternatives.

At this point, we can offer you (1) a chrome-tanned cowhide sneaker at a discounted $200 price, (2) the future possibility of a genuine shell cordovan trainer, but with a longer lead time and a markedly higher price or (3) an immediate refund of your $100 deposit. Regardless of what you choose, we will create a personal 15% discount code for use on a future order of your choice.

Your faith and enthusiasm for this project was overwhelming, so this is particularly painful and embarrassing for us.

The Story
In the interest of transparency, I've written a long narrative of what got us to this point. It's summarized on this online page:

http://epauletnewyork.com/pages/epaulet-shell-cordovan-trainer-pre-order-change

This also contains images of the alternative chrome-tanned cowhide leather, and details on actual shell cordovan production.

Your Discount Code
We'd like to offer you a personal discount code for 15% off any purchase. This can be used on anything in our online shop - including sale merchandise - and it will never expire. You can enter this at the last page of checkout

** This code will be personalized for each customer. You'll receive it by email ***
Online Form for Your Responses
We created a form for you to submit your preferences. You can indicate refunds or substitutions here. You can view this here:

https://docs.google.com/a/epauletne...LBn54fRjUprlcaIjEx3i5ezM683rs_Q6D_38/viewform

Thank you for your time and your understanding. Again, we cannot apologize enough for this situation. We'll continue to do the best work that we can, and I hope that we can redeem ourselves in your eyes and prove ourselves worthy of your confidence once again.

Sincerely,
Michael Kuhle & the Epaulet Team

 

[Newcomer]

I appreciate the transparency, and I understand--hey, 'ish happens. Thanks for the well-thought-out post, and I am sorry to hear about the troubles you had. I will certainly put the 15% code to good use.

 

[eljlakers]

Hey guys,

By now, most of you should have received a personal email from us. We're going through all of them, and we should be able to contact everyone by the end of today. Here's the text that you'll see below.

It's both regretful and embarassing that we're not able to fulfill our side of the project as promised. Take your time and read through everything when you have a moment. I'll be on hand here continuously to answer any questions that you have. We'll most likely have a discussion in the Epaulet Affiliate Thread as well

Thanks,
Mike

***********************

Dear Friend

Happy New Year and I hope that all is well with you. I'm afraid that I have some bad news.

We will not be able to deliver the Shell Cordovan Trainers as promised.

In short: this project was initially coordinated through a US-based agent. They created the sample shoes, quoted the prices, and served as our only contact to the factory. The samples that we received, photographed, and presented were not actual shell cordovan - but a glazed cowhide meant to look like horse leather. I discovered this six weeks ago upon my factory visit, and we've been scrambling to find some workable alternatives.

At this point, we can offer you (1) a chrome-tanned cowhide sneaker at a discounted $200 price, (2) the future possibility of a genuine shell cordovan trainer, but with a longer lead time and a markedly higher price or (3) an immediate refund of your $100 deposit. Regardless of what you choose, we will create a personal 15% discount code for use on a future order of your choice.

Your faith and enthusiasm for this project was overwhelming, so this is particularly painful and embarrassing for us.

The Story
In the interest of transparency, I've written a long narrative of what got us to this point. It's summarized on this online page:

http://epauletnewyork.com/pages/epaulet-shell-cordovan-trainer-pre-order-change

This also contains images of the alternative chrome-tanned cowhide leather, and details on actual shell cordovan production.

Your Discount Code
We'd like to offer you a personal discount code for 15% off any purchase. This can be used on anything in our online shop - including sale merchandise - and it will never expire. You can enter this at the last page of checkout

** This code will be personalized for each customer. You'll receive it by email ***
Online Form for Your Responses
We created a form for you to submit your preferences. You can indicate refunds or substitutions here. You can view this here:

https://docs.google.com/a/epauletne...LBn54fRjUprlcaIjEx3i5ezM683rs_Q6D_38/viewform

Thank you for your time and your understanding. Again, we cannot apologize enough for this situation. We'll continue to do the best work that we can, and I hope that we can redeem ourselves in your eyes and prove ourselves worthy of your confidence once again.

Sincerely,
Michael Kuhle & the Epaulet Team

Mike,

First of all, no apologies necessary. You attempted to bring a very-difficult-to-pull-off product to an eager audience at a killer price. Sometimes things don't work out. Let's put this all in perspective. This was a luxury product for a generally well-stocked shoe-craving crowd. I'll live. And now there's a new product to get excited about! As has been said numerous times already, the transparent way you dealt with the situation and the way you endeavored to make it up to us more than makes up for any disappointment I feel at missing out on a shell sneaker.

Hope you and yours had a great holiday season and look forward to being a long-term Epaulet customer.

Eric

 

[ChrisGold]

I appreciate the way you're handling and will remain a loyal customer.

 

[badsha]

Mike is the sizing the same as the Tennis Trainer Slate Calfkin? I changed my size on the Shell Sneaker Pre-Order after buying the Grey Slate, which fit me in 10 US.

 

[HRoi]

disappointing news, but i appreciate the efforts to make good and being proactive.

i think if i'm totally honest here, i was pretty surprised at you being able to offer something in shell for this low a price. so i suppose that things really were too good to be true in this case.

anyway, no lasting harm done - i know you guys are pretty embarrassed now, but i hope this doesn't discourage you from taking more risks on innovative offerings in the future

 

[flatspotting]

Crazy news! It makes me feel OK I missed Cognac.... although at this point for $200 for chrome-tanned I would honestly consider it hah.

 

[zazaza]

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Cigar Sample Wear

As some of you guys have seen, I started wearing the Cigar sample so that I can show you how it's aging.

Here's my impressions so far:

1) The leather doesn't look like the typical shell cordovan when you see it unworn. It turns out that Comipel puts a bit of top finish on the leather to give it more shelf appeal when it's brand new. It has a very smooth, satin finish. Once you start wearing it and working it in, this finish goes away quickly, and it takes on much more of the oily shell cordovan feeling that we know and love.

Check out the difference between the first and the last image. Now you've got different lighting scenarios there, and probably a different camera white balance setting, but if you look closely, you can see how the matte finish of the shoes on their first wear gives way to that kind of natural gloss which shell cordovan usually has. No polish or treatment was applied over the course of these photos.

2) In terms of creasing vs. rolling, this is somewhere in the middle of my typical experience. Here's a comparison pic with an Alden shell PTB:

I don't think that you'll see the same degree of rolling because this particular leather is thinner than Horween and the sole is much more flexible. But it's definitely not like calfskin. It's still pretty early to tell - these images are the result of wearing the trainers about 6-7 times.

3) Break-in was wonderful. No discomfort with the upper at any point, and I'm usually pretty sensitive about that. I can't do Red Wings or other tough boots. I think that you guys will find these to be extremely comfortable.

4) I can see some nice color variation already. These are going to gain some beautiful character with more wear.

5) Leather treatment and polish is absolutely appropriate for these. I hit them with Renovateur already. And they definitely should have some support when you're not wearing them. I'm using shoe trees that are one size too small. Stuffing them with thick socks should work too. I'd avoid using a properly-sized shoe tree, as that might stretch them out.

OK! I think that you guys will be very happy with them. I'll check in again shortly.

Wait, so were these samples the fake shell that Mike mentioned in his letter, or did the factory send a shell prototype and then pull a switcheroo?

 

[Epaulet]

Hey guys,

Thanks so much for the kind words - they really mean a lot. And really, thank you for your understanding. I really hated to disappoint everyone with this news, but I'm grateful that I caught it before we actually made anything in this leather. It's not a bad leather (quite a nice one actually), but it is not real shell cordovan. A factory visit would be a standard part of my QC for any project this size. I've visited every single factory that makes any significant amount of merchandise for us - and I do it pretty regularly. We've had about half of the customers so far sign on for the chrome-tanned options, and we're all excited that we can still deliver some great shoes to you guys. We ultimately want to build out a really exciting and expansive collection of in-house footwear, so this project was the first step to capture some attention and new customers for the line.

Also, I feel like I owe you guys on this thread a special apology. When I started it, it was my intention to keep everything updated, check in with progress, show photos of the samples ageing, etc. After that factory visit, I was sent scrambling for alternatives and trying to source actual shell from a few different suppliers. Unfortunately, the timing was rough (mid October), as the factory and the tanneries are all booked with holiday orders. So samples took a while, leather took a while. I didn't want to come back to the thread empty handed - and I didn't want to keep showing the samples that I knew were not real shell - so I didn't really have anything to post. And I regret that - especially seeing a bunch of questions and points that I should have been responding to. I'll keep on top of this thread from here on in and I do have quite a few photos from the factory to share.

Oh, and if any of you guys are in the NY area, then we have the Couro Cromo samples at our Manhattan store. Please feel free to check them out anytime!

I still owe about 60 guys their discount code email, so I'll work to catch up with all of those tomorrow. And everyone who wants a refund will receive it in the next day or two.

 

[Epaulet]



Wait, so were these samples the fake shell that Mike mentioned in his letter, or did the factory send a shell prototype and then pull a switcheroo?

Yes, this was the "cordovan" leather - which was essentially a simulated shell cordovan. It's real leather - a glazed cowhide to be precise - and it is called "cordovan" from the tannery.

It presents very nicely. It doesn't look like shell cordovan that I've seen elsewhere, but it had a great lustre to it. I wore the samples quite a bit as well, and I have to say - they were very comfortable and broke in easily. It's not a bad leather at all. It's just not what we ordered.

The factory is really and truly blameless in this scenario. We were not communicating directly when I set this project up. All that they did was get the sample order from the agent and make up the samples. It's a fantastic factory, and I'm very excited to work with them. I've been to about 20 footwear factories in my time, and this place was very clean, very organized, and had great morale. Their craftsmanship is excellent.

Crazy news!  It makes me feel OK I missed Cognac.... although at this point for $200 for chrome-tanned I would honestly consider it hah. 

Haha, yes - so far Saddle has been the number one color for those switching their orders. A lot guys came into the preorder late and were only able to order into Navy and Black, so it's nice that we can get people the color that they liked initially.

Selling almost as well is the Loden, actually. We've never really been successful with green shoes in the past, but that particular color is absolutely killer. Works better in a trainer than Longwing, I guess.

disappointing news, but i appreciate the efforts to make good and being proactive.

i think if i'm totally honest here, i was pretty surprised at you being able to offer something in shell for this low a price. so i suppose that things really were too good to be true in this case.

anyway, no lasting harm done - i know you guys are pretty embarrassed now, but i hope this doesn't discourage you from taking more risks on innovative offerings in the future

Thank you! And no, we've certainly got plenty of tricks up our sleeve.

I was surprised at the price as well - although our cost was a bit over twice the cost of our calfskin. And the Mastrotto calf that we use is pretty expensive, especially considering the typical leather used for high-end sneakers.

I should have probably been more skeptical. It didn't look weird to me because shell cordovan is usually about 40% more expensive than calf when you deal with Alden or Carmina. So I figured the pricing was normal. We also took a very low markup on this item because I wanted to get the sneakers into a lot of new hands and build a following for our larger collection to come.

What I didn't appreciate is that the cost of a shell Alden or Carmina is overwhelmingly due to the leather price. The cost to "make" a sneaker vs. a goodyear welted shoe in Europe along the lines of a Carmina is actually not hugely different. So when you see the wholesale and eventual retail price of a shell Carmina, the vast bulk of that cost is coming from the leather expense. A sneaker uses about the same amount of leather, so the pricing has to be somewhat comparable.

It's possible to source cheaper variants of shell, but I really love what Comipel makes. They were initially who I wanted to buy from, and they've been an absolute pleasure to work with. Honestly, they could have been very pissed off (and rightfully so) that I was selling sneakers which claimed to be made in their leather. After all, their leather was in no way involved in those samples. Our agent never contacted them.

But I explained the situation to them and they were very understanding. We set up an account, received some swatches, and placed our sample orders for leathers. Even when things go wrong, there's ultimately a lot of very good and honest people in our industry, and it's always good to make new connections. I'm excited to show you guys samples from a few different leathers that they offer.

Mike is the sizing the same as the Tennis Trainer Slate Calfkin? I changed my size on the Shell Sneaker Pre-Order after buying the Grey Slate, which fit me in 10 US.

Yes sir. Same sizing across the board on the Tennis Trainers. We use the same last for all of the skins.

 

[nyarkies]

Ey Mike @Epaulet. I sent you a pm regarding my preorder on the sneakers. Please respond when you can. Thank you.

 

[striker]

They still look pretty good though to be honest. It's just me but I can't get past the part where the factory would call corrected calf grain shell cordovan and market it that way..

 

[kwanon]



They still look pretty good though to be honest. It's just me but I can't get past the part where the factory would call corrected calf grain shell cordovan and market it that way.. 

To be a bit pedantic, it's not corrected grain. It's just glazed. Alden glazes their shell and nobody calls it CG. CG is when the leather is sanded and they bond a layer to the top with a printed/pressed leather grain pattern on it.