• Hi, I am the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • This site contains affiliate links for which Styleforum may be compensated.
  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

    Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Sprezzatura in the age of Bill Gates

Corinthian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
72
Reaction score
0
How does one maintain sprezzatura amongst peers who rarely dress well?

There is a nice passage on sprezzatura on The Materialist from Baldesar Castiglione and I borrow part of it here for the benefit of this discussion:


Sprezzatura is most simply translated as nonchalance. I first encounted the word in this passage from G. Bruce Boyer's Eminently Suitable:

Sprezzatura encompasses that purposefully disordered style, that cultivated recklessness, that seeming unconcern of the man who turns up his jacket collar, the collar of that English custom-made hacking jacket he wears with his ten-year-old faded khakis and an old school tie for a belt. The man whose one sleeve button is left undone and whose flannels have just a few well-placed wrinkles.
[http://www.thematerialist.net/sprezzatura.html]


Open sleeve buttons aside... In a world that sees jeans in the office, lounge suits worn as "formal" and where what many here on SF would consider everyday dress is seen as "dressing up" my most, the concepts of "˜dressing well' and "˜maintaining sprezzatura' seem contradictory. When dressing well seems like an affectation to many, how can one both dress well and appear nonchalant?

I am not suggesting it cannot be done. Rather opening it up for what I hope will be interesting discussion.
 

lakewolf

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
4,821
Reaction score
10
Simply,

don't overthink about clothes or style.

Better yet,

don't even think about clothes or style.


Your sprezzatura then will flow outside naturally
 

Corinthian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
72
Reaction score
0
Sorry, I should have been clearer. What I mean here is not "how do I achieve sprezzatura" rather "where does sprezzatura exist in a world where the majority of people do not seem to think about their clothes or style at all?"
 

mink31

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
731
Reaction score
6
Originally Posted by Corinthian
What I mean here is not "how do I achieve sprezzatura" rather "where does sprezzatura exist in a world where the majority of people do not seem to think about their clothes or style at all?"

It's not too hard, really. Don't spend >30 s on your hair, leave (any) button unbuttoned, slightly roll up a sleeve, leave your tie a bit askew, etc. Hell, even wearing some worn-in thrifting finds can qualify
cheers.gif
.
 

lee_44106

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
8,043
Reaction score
100
The key here is FIT.

If the clothing fit well, even if the dresser is careless about what is put on, than it appears very non-chalant, ergo sprezzatura.

If the clothing fits badly, the dresser looks sloppy.
 

james_timothy

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
2,491
Reaction score
94
Michael Bastian seems to do it well. At least in the Sartorialist images, like
this one:
MBastianapr5.jpg
 

Fuuma

Franchouillard Modasse
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
26,951
Reaction score
14,542
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Sorry, I should have been clearer.

What I mean here is not "how do I achieve sprezzatura" rather "where does sprezzatura exist in a world where the majority of people do not seem to think about their clothes or style at all?"


I'd say these things have gotten way more important than they were in the mythical past you're alluding to.
 

oscarthewild

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 6, 2004
Messages
2,396
Reaction score
58
How about this (originally posted by Manton)
Fall2007CommedesGarcons%5B1%5D.jpg


Or maybe that is more POWER dressing?
 

Tomasso

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,067
Reaction score
19
A man should look as if he had bought his clothes with intelligence, put them on with care, and then forgotten all about them - Hardy Amies

This is my personal take on sprezzatura; any contrivance beyond this seems an affectation.
 

s4usea

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
97
Reaction score
0
Originally Posted by lee_44106
The key here is FIT.



Actually the key here is context.

The term comes from Castiglione's 16th century work "The Book of the Courtier" and in context it means casual without being casual. A perfect example of someone with their spezz on are the guys I'd see in Italy who would stick their ties in their brest pocket, unbutton their collars and pull the stays out. When I think of spezz I think of Luciano Barbera wearing his watch over his cuff. Fit has nothing to do with it, as it's more of an attitude than a look.
 

Gus

Stylish Dinosaur
Dubiously Honored
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
18,580
Reaction score
8,077
I don't think your "business casual" friends will ever appreciate your style. They just won't get it. They are in another world. You just have to be yourself and every now and then you will meet those who appreciate your style.
 

itsstillmatt

The Liberator
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
13,969
Reaction score
2,086
I've never heard the word "sprezzatura" in Italy. Only on clothing forums and at Wilkes Bashford.
 

lee_44106

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
8,043
Reaction score
100
Originally Posted by s4usea
Actually the key here is context.

The term comes from Castiglione's 16th century work "The Book of the Courtier" and in context it means casual without being casual. A perfect example of someone with their spezz on are the guys I'd see in Italy who would stick their ties in their brest pocket, unbutton their collars and pull the stays out. When I think of spezz I think of Luciano Barbera wearing his watch over his cuff. Fit has nothing to do with it, as it's more of an attitude than a look.


These Italian guys and certainly Mr. Barbera are all attired in well-fitting clothes. If it does not fit first, no amount of contextual manipulation can sprezzatura make.
 

Eustace Tilley

Timed Out
Timed Out
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
6,441
Reaction score
324
Originally Posted by iammatt
I've never heard the word "sprezzatura" in Italy. Only on clothing forums and at Wilkes Bashford.

And Men's Vogue articles.
 

epa

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
1,410
Reaction score
7
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Sprezzatura encompasses that purposefully disordered style, that cultivated recklessness, that seeming unconcern of the man who turns up his jacket collar, the collar of that English custom-made hacking jacket he wears with his ten-year-old faded khakis and an old school tie for a belt. The man whose one sleeve button is left undone and whose flannels have just a few well-placed wrinkles.
[http://www.thematerialist.net/sprezzatura.html]


Frankly speaking, the custom jacket with worn-out khakis is not what I understand with sprezzatura, it is just one more example of this behaviour often shown by these pop-or-football-stars wearing expensive brand jackets with ripped brand jeans: showing that you are rich and actually rich enough to dress as a slob and get away with it (I once remember eating in a "fancy" restaurant where tie was mandatory: at the next table, a Spanish movie star dressed down in ripped jeans and dirty sneakers. He got away with it for being famous. I will not return to that resaurant. And in any case, the food was not good).
Sprezzatura is something different: elegance but with something relaxed about it. Casual, but not in the way "casual clothing" is often understood today. Wearing a tie as a belt is far to "studied" to qualify, IMO.
 

Featured Sponsor

How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 92 37.6%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 90 36.7%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 26 10.6%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 41 16.7%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 38 15.5%

Forum statistics

Threads
506,939
Messages
10,593,020
Members
224,338
Latest member
Antek
Top