Sole Welting

[DWFII]



What about comfort and resoling? It is superior in performance, or just without the use of cement? Just curious here

Comfort should be similar to handwelted.

Resoling depends on the quality of the outsole but the outsole is attached in an identical manner as it would be with either HW or GY so no gain or loss.

 

[DWFII]



I base my perception on the amount of GY welted shoes I have seen&handled in various stages of their life. No gemming failure.
This makes me believe that the construction does not have a fundamental flaw.
I am not saying it is as good as HW but I dont believe GY to be a marketing myth.

Got it. Just as I thought.

Well, you're not alone...

 

[Crat]

Well, you did ask what my perception was based on and what else could that be other than my own experience?

Those guys in your picture are all more solidly built than I am btw, so thats not accurate : )

 

[DWFII]



Well, you did ask what my perception was based on and what else could that be other than my own experience?

So...what do you think my perception is based on?

Or is that of any interest to you at all?

 

[chogall]



Chogall, all the stitching is just for show?

No. They are to imitate how the shoes are made as if they are hand welted.

 

[chogall]



One could argue that blake rapid is superior as there is no cementing used in any bond.
The insole is directly stitched to the upper and midsole, then a second stitch secures the outsole to the midsole.

Imo this arguement would be valid if GYW shoes were failing left, right and center.

Again, let's talk about the merit of different shoe construction methods.

What's the point of bringing up how GY welted shoes don't fail left and right? Even those cemented shoes that this forum despise don't fail frequently, but it doesn't say much regarding the fidelity of their construction.

 

[MSchapiro]

Actually I had a pair of Bostonians break down pretty easily within two months of every other day wear. Although Clarks replaced them without question.

 

[TheWraith]



I base my perception on the amount of GY welted shoes I have seen&handled in various stages of their life. No gemming failure.
This makes me believe that the construction does not have a fundamental flaw.
I am not saying it is as good as HW but I dont believe GY to be a marketing myth.

Well said, Crat. You are 100% right. Obviously, hand welting is better, and no-one in this thread has ever denied that. It is the very best there is. No question or argument there. But, GYW isn't the rubbish welting method some here have made it out to be. That's just all there is to it.

There's room in this world for the best and for various levels under that and for proponents of each level without the need for anyone--ANYONE--to rubbish those proponents. The world is big enough for us all to live in peace and to champion our own favourites without others bagging others for their choices.

 

[Crat]



Or is that of any interest to you at all?

Not much tbh as my argument is basically the very large number of people who wear GY welted shoes with no (gemming) problems vs. the very few exceptions.
One man's experience doesn't make much of a difference, however good a shoemaker he may be.

Which brings me to ->

What's the point of bringing up how GY welted shoes don't fail left and right?

I'm a simple guy with simple logic; If it doesn't fail on a regular base there isn't a fundamental flaw in the construction.

 

[wurger]

To be fair, I don't see a single person other than DW provide points on why hand welt is better than Goodyear welt. There is a lot of yes to hand welt is better, but can someone provide some other points if they want to offer a different opinion.

I quite like the information about blake rapid vs Goodyear welt.

 

[DWFII]



So...what do you think my perception is based on?

Or is that of any interest to you at all?

Not much tbh

That's the answer I expected...in one form or another. And I suspect that it is echoed in every meaningless, boringly repetitive, sycophantic, "Well said," "Wise words," and the like--ritualistic chants to ward against the "evils" of an open mind.

In fact, the answer really couldn't have been anything else. Of course, you're (plural) not interest in anyone else's experiences or perceptions. Anymore than you're interested in the fact that from the beginning I've said that gemming failure was dependent on many different factors, and that some people might not ever experience it or might never know if they did. To acknowledge that would undermine your real reason for posting here--to create controversy; for the argument itself.

[sigh] I suspect it's second nature for some--Let the good times troll, eh?

--

 

[Crat]

Actually, I'm quite interested in the cumulative perception of all GY wearers out there & how their shoes are holding up. The statistics would intrest me greatly but the individual case not so much.

 

[RogerP]

Quote:
Entirely correct. The fact that instances of failure are so rare as to be a non-issue funamentally and conclusively undermines the assertion that GYW embraces a fundamental flaw in construction, no matter how loudly or frequently that such is proclaimed. As someone pointed out way back in this thread, it is entirely possible for a hand welt to fail. I suppose the picture that was posted reflecting such a failure could be re-posted endlessly in support of the proposition that hand welting is a fundamentally flawed construction method doomed to failure, but that wouldn't make it any more valid.

 

[DWFII]



I'm a simple guy with simple logic; If it doesn't fail on a regular base there isn't a fundamental flaw in the construction.

No, I get it...what we have here is a fundamental difference in the way we see the world; in the way we define and perceive "quality." Your (plural) "perception" of quality revolves around "access" and expedience and affordability. If it didn't, you'd never have access to any level of "quality", no matter how attenuated or artificial, much less any sense of "special."

That definition of quality sees nothing wrong with particle board furniture, covered with simulated wood-grain plastic veneer--and "hey, it looks just like real wood!"

And that's entirely understandable--particle board lasts for years and years. Millions..I say millions...of people, the world over use such furniture and never have it swell up and disintegrate, or have the joints pull loose simply because the PB is not dense enough to hold the glue.

And if it does, they don't moan about it, or even make a mental note...they don't have to. They just throw it away and buy some more. All the while chanting "It's not flawed construction!" "It's not flawed construction!"

But it's the first thing you'll get rid of if you ever do find yourself in a position to afford or appreciate true quality.

I doubt our Weltanschauung (worldview) will ever be compatible--as patently lower middle class and as uneducated as I am, however, even I know...it's still ticky-tacky.

--

 

[Nick V.]



I think that's right. Not to toot my horn too much, but I saw that coming years ago. AFAIK, my webpage is actually the oldest continuously operating shoe or boot making related site on the 'Net. There were a few before me but only a few and they quickly went tips up...only to re-emerge years later when the 'Net really started to catch on.

At that time it was enormously expensive to set up a webpage and most people hired it out. It was that or learn to do it yourself. That's the route I took.

In any case, what you and LA guy describe is a win-win for everyone, if our societies can just be open enough to embrace diversity and multiple choices without getting sucked into sycophancy and group-think..

I couldn't agree more...I'm not trying to toot my own horn either. Just sharing my own experience....
At one point I had 4 stores, one was also a factory, 40 people working for me. I was making more money than I make today. I began to hate it because I realized I was loosing control of the quality. I decided to ditch it and focus on a large percentage of a smaller market (high-grades) than compete with competitors looking to under-cut my prices. I started paying more attention to what that market was asking for and expected. I knew I had the right people to deliver, just didn't need the others.

Yes, I stay in touch with many big-wigs in the shoe industry. We talk shop constantly. They teach me, I teach them. We learn from each other. I find the whole equation much more rewarding.

As far as society I'm not going to change it. But, when people want what they want they find it. Thanks to the internet.