Shaq Retires

[venessian]

I'm not saying I agree with the list. However, the list was put together by both ESPN and non-ESPN "experts", including ex-NBA players. Kareem/Wilt essentially tied for #1. Walton/Robinson essentially tied as well

As I said, these "greatest ever" lists are impossible, other than in some very special instances (Edwin Moses for instance).

 

[Brogued]

I never understand the high ranking of Bill Walton. He was great, sure, but for such a short time. His career forms an incomplete picture. His greatness is based on 2-3 seasons and not the very frustrating career he had. Just don't think it's fair to have him on a list like this.

 

[rnoldh]

In 1965 I was in HS at Abraham Lincoln HS on Ocean Parkway in Brooklyn. I was the basketball team assistant manager ( a gofer for the coach who was a phys-ed teacher ). We had one of the very few 7 foot HS centers in the nation at that time. He was Dave Shorty Newmark, who would later play for Columbia U., and then briefly in the NBA.

Because we had a 7 foot center, a team from the city, Power Memorial HS played a game against us. Their center was a guy named Lew Alcindor.

Here is a post by a guy named Glassman, who I dont remember

Found this post with a Google of Dave shorty Newmark, see 12 - 17 - 2006,


>> My HS went up against a young Alcindor in HS. We had a white 7 footer
>> named "Dave shorty Newmark" that was going to teach him a lesson. Lew
>> sat out the entire 2nd half after scoring 50 in the 1st!
>
> Which explains why Shorty lasted only 2 years in the pros.

I remember that night when we played Power Memorial and Alcindor's 50 points in the 1st half. I also remember we played Boys High a few times ( is that HS still there ? ) and some of their players were NBA quality.

Dave Newmark had a brother, Brian Newmark who was one of my best running buddies in HS. He went on to start for Harvard from about 1969 - 1972. He was not NBA quality but if there are any old Harvard guys here they might remember him.

As to the thread, Shaq, and centers. That was a different era in 1965, but I can still remember the grace of a huge HS center named Lew Alcindor like it was yesterday.

 

[foodguy]

yeah, and i covered the virginia state championship when a young center named moses malone kind of ruled. weirdly, i also covered for a couple of years a hs team that included craig ehlo, who went on to a checkered nba career, but who totally shocked me when he even got a college scholarship. some you can spot coming, some you can't.

 

[rnoldh]

Originally Posted by foodguy

yeah, and i covered the virginia state championship when a young center named moses malone kind of ruled. weirdly, i also covered for a couple of years a hs team that included craig ehlo, who went on to a checkered nba career, but who totally shocked me when he even got a college scholarship. some you can spot coming, some you can't.

Wow, Malone was in Houston for many years of course.

He worked out often at a place called the Fonde Recreation Center on Memorial Dr. right near where I live ( Houstonians will know the place ).

When a raw young talent named Hakeem Olajuwon came to Houston straight from Nigeria to attend U of H, Hakeem says that he learned much of his basic basketball from Malone at the Fonde Recreation Center. Malone would later say the Hakeem was the best and hardest working student he ever had. They were both great players of course.

A little bit about the Fonde Center.

 

[guster]

Originally Posted by Brogued

I never understand the high ranking of Bill Walton. He was great, sure, but for such a short time. His career forms an incomplete picture. His greatness is based on 2-3 seasons and not the very frustrating career he had. Just don't think it's fair to have him on a list like this.

Agree. I have to think that people are including his college career. Yes, he played on great UCLA teams but he was the dominent force in college bb. Still, he had 2 great years in Portland and some decent ones for the Clippers. Far short of most of the other guys on the list.

 

[guster]

Look at that list of people doing the rankings for ESPN... Dominated by ESPN people and NBA tv analysts. A poll done by seasoned NBA writers across the country is a list I would be interested in seeing. Not this bunch

 

[thinman]

Originally Posted by FLMountainMan

Sabonis better than Cowens? Walton better than David Robinson? That list highlights what a complete joke ESPN is. Really, over the last decade, they've proudly shed themselves of any journalistic credibility they once had. And that's fine, they're an entertainment network, and have made millions being one. But when they try to do serious journalism, it's pretty hard to take them seriously.

My reaction, too. Sabonis??? Maybe, MAYBE if you look at his international career, but in the NBA he had all the mobility of Mark Eaton and a passable jump shot instead of the shot blocking skills. Every other center who received a vote had a better NBA career than Sabonis.

Originally Posted by guster

Agree. I have to think that people are including his college career. Yes, he played on great UCLA teams but he was the dominent force in college bb. Still, he had 2 great years in Portland and some decent ones for the Clippers. Far short of most of the other guys on the list.

And Walton above Robinson has to be conflating Walton's college career with his NBA career.

 

[FLMountainMan]

There's no way Walton's professional career qualifies him for a top thirty ranking in the NBA, much less a top ten one. He was 6'10", 210lbs, and naturally got hurt a ton. His career best was 34.8 minutes a game. The one season he played in over seventy games he averaged a whopping 19 minutes. Because he was hurt so much, the only stats that make him look near "great" are his averages-per-thirty-six-minutes I mentioned in a previous post. Even though he never averaged 36 minutes a game in any season of his career. And even using that stat, it's hard to argue a top five or top ten ranking: Lifetime average of 17 points, 13 boards, 4.3 assists (but 3.8 turnovers), and 3.8 blocks. Best season of 20.7 points, 13.5 boards, 3.6 assists (but 4.0 turnovers) and 4.1 blocks.

 

[The Deacon]

Originally Posted by FLMountainMan

There's no way Walton's professional career qualifies him for a top thirty ranking in the NBA, much less a top ten one. He was 6'10", 210lbs, and naturally got hurt a ton.

His career best was 34.8 minutes a game. The one season he played in over seventy games he averaged a whopping 19 minutes.

Because he was hurt so much, the only stats that make him look near "great" are his averages-per-thirty-six-minutes I mentioned in a previous post. Even though he never averaged 36 minutes a game in any season of his career. And even using that stat, it's hard to argue a top five or top ten ranking:

Lifetime average of 17 points, 13 boards, 4.3 assists (but 3.8 turnovers), and 3.8 blocks.
Best season of 20.7 points, 13.5 boards, 3.6 assists (but 4.0 turnovers) and 4.1 blocks.

a little known point of interest nationally but well known in Boston thanks to Boston Globe sportswriter(ESPN's The Sportswriters too!) Bob Ryan was that Bill Walton actually stood at least 7 ft. He reportedly detested being thought of as a 7 footer for some reason but in the numerous pictures available with him standing next to Robert Parish in team photos he is clearly taller. Just an FYI.

 

[HORNS]

You think about how powerful he was in the NBA, but got to watch him play in the Texas State Basketball Tournament. He played for San Antonio Cole, which was a 3-A school - this is a small school class and he was a beast among boys. Often kids at that age and that height are gangly but he was so freakishly developed.

 

[mr monty]

It's so hard to say who's best and not consider the supporting cast. For example : What if McAdoo had played for Boston and Cowens played for Buffalo? Wilt, Pistol Pete or the Big O playing for better teams during their prime?

 

[FLMountainMan]

Originally Posted by mr monty

It's so hard to say who's best and not consider the supporting cast. For example : What if McAdoo had played for Boston and Cowens played for Buffalo? Wilt, Pistol Pete or the Big O playing for better teams during their prime?

Pistol Pete is quite possibly the most overrated NBA player ever. I'll go into this when I have more time.

 

[The Deacon]

Originally Posted by FLMountainMan

Pistol Pete is quite possibly the most overrated NBA player ever. I'll go into this when I have more time.
Didn't he bust Clyde Frazier's ass for 66 in the Garden? Jerry West for 60 also? The guy averaged 27pts per game on one leg due to that brace on the horrible knee. I agree he wasn't perfect but although overated he was pretty good.

 

[Cedric]

It was about time, he had a great career for sure!