Shaq Retires

[FLMountainMan]

Originally Posted by thinman

No. Wilt would stand up well to anyone from any era. The man was a beast ahead of his time.

Yeah, I've always disagreed with "he never played against anyone his size" argument against Wilt. There are hardly any centers in the league today that are his size. Could Brad Miller, Chris Bosh, or Chris Kaman match up against Wilt physically? I certainly think an argument could be made that the forwards and guards coming to double-team him would be bigger in today's NBA, but, as far as a one on one matchup, the center position seemes to have plateaued, size-wise.

Wilt was ten years older than Kareem and in his passing phase when they matched-up. They played each other for four seasons, Kareem averaged 26/16 and Wilt averaged 23/18.

 

[thinman]

Originally Posted by FLMountainMan

Yeah, I've always disagreed with "he never played against anyone his size" argument against Wilt. There are hardly any centers in the league today that are his size. Could Brad Miller, Chris Bosh, or Chris Kaman match up against Wilt physically? I certainly think an argument could be made that the forwards and guards coming to double-team him would be bigger in today's NBA, but, as far as a one on one matchup, the center position seemes to have plateaued, size-wise.

Wilt was ten years older than Kareem and in his passing phase when they matched-up. They played each other for four seasons, Kareem averaged 26/16 and Wilt averaged 23/18.

I don't buy that line about him never playing anyone his size either. Very few of today's centers are better than Bill Russell, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, or Bob Lanier. Reed and Lanier were skilled big men who went about 6'10" and 250 lbs. and Thurmond was 6'11", strong as an ox, and never backed down. And Russell was Russell.

 

[FLMountainMan]

Originally Posted by thinman

I don't buy that line about him never playing anyone his size either. Very few of today's centers are better than Bill Russell, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, or Bob Lanier. Reed and Lanier were skilled big men who went about 6'10" and 250 lbs. and Thurmond was 6'11", strong as an ox, and never backed down. And Russell was Russell.

And Artis Gilmore was massive. I think people may forget that there are a good number more than now. Dilution is probably a factor.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Nate Thurmond is pretty much the coolest guy ever.

 

[aportnoy]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Nate Thurmond is pretty much the coolest guy ever.

Frazier, Clyde Frazier.

 

[thinman]

Originally Posted by FLMountainMan

And Artis Gilmore was massive. I think people may forget that there are a good number more than now. Dilution is probably a factor.
I didn't mention Artis Gilmore because he played in the ABA until after Wilt had retired. Used to love watching him play, though. Can you imagine standing beside someone 7'2" with another 6-8" of afro??

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by aportnoy

Frazier, Clyde Frazier.
Well yeah, but Thurmond used to come help out with our junior high school basketball team once in awhile. He was good friends with our coach/English teacher. Just a great guy.

 

[Brogued]

Originally Posted by fir3fox

To be fair Shaq was still fairly young. They did get swept and I'll agree that Hakeem out performed him in the series but the the discrepancy between their individual performances wasn't that big.
Sure, but the assertion was that Shaq would have manhandled the other centers, which he certainly did not do in the '95 Finals. When he was young, he was more prone to the manhandling too.

 

[thinman]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Well yeah, but Thurmond used to come help out with our junior high school basketball team once in awhile. He was good friends with our coach/English teacher. Just a great guy.

Great story. I think few people who saw the beast he was on the court would picture him working with kids.

 

[FLMountainMan]

Originally Posted by thinman

I didn't mention Artis Gilmore because he played in the ABA until after Wilt had retired. Used to love watching him play, though. Can you imagine standing beside someone 7'2" with another 6-8" of afro??

Good call, I misremembered. Pretty cool video of one of the few times they did match up....

http://wn.com/1972_ABA_vs_NBA_All_St...Daniels_part_1

 

[thinman]

Originally Posted by FLMountainMan

Good call, I misremembered. Pretty cool video of one of the few times they did match up.... http://wn.com/1972_ABA_vs_NBA_All_St...Daniels_part_1
Thanks for posting this; I enjoyed it. Clearly, Chamberlain, Gilmore, and Lanier are the best big men on the floor, though I enjoyed seeing Dr. J go against Connie Hawkins. They were 2 of my favorites.

 

[The Deacon]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Nate Thurmond is pretty much the coolest guy ever.

+1

 

[aportnoy]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Well yeah, but Thurmond used to come help out with our junior high school basketball team once in awhile. He was good friends with our coach/English teacher. Just a great guy.

Yeah I hear you on Thurmond. Clyde actually rode the subway to home games in the 70s, a different time.

On the centers from different eras thing, Wes Unseld was another monster averaging 14 boards per game over a long career.

 

[venessian]

I think these "best ever" lists are impossible but fwiw this is ESPN's list of the greatest centers of all time, from a few years ago. 1. Abdul-Jabbar 2. Chamberlain 3. Russell 4. O'Neal 5. Olajuwon 6. Malone 7. Walton 8. Robinson 9. Mikan 10. Ewing Others receiving votes (points): Willis Reed (12), Arvydas Sabonis (12), Bob Lanier (8), Dave Cowens (6), Nate Thurmond (6), Robert Parish (4), Bob McAdoo (4), Artis Gilmore (3), Spencer Haywood (3), Wes Unseld (2), Dwight Howard (1) Unseld, Thurmond, Gilmore, Spen, those were fun guys to watch. Cowens memorized the entire Boston phone book apparently. Reed was cool. Those were fun eras. Now, there's only Dwight and Bynum....

 

[FLMountainMan]

Originally Posted by venessian

I think these "best ever" lists are impossible but fwiw this is ESPN's list of the greatest centers of all time, from a few years ago.

1. Abdul-Jabbar
2. Chamberlain
3. Russell
4. O'Neal
5. Olajuwon
6. Malone
7. Walton
8. Robinson
9. Mikan
10. Ewing

Others receiving votes (points):
Willis Reed (12), Arvydas Sabonis (12), Bob Lanier (8), Dave Cowens (6), Nate Thurmond (6), Robert Parish (4), Bob McAdoo (4), Artis Gilmore (3), Spencer Haywood (3), Wes Unseld (2), Dwight Howard (1)

Unseld, Thurmond, Gilmore, Spen, those were fun guys to watch. Cowens memorized the entire Boston phone book apparently. Reed was cool. Those were fun eras. Now, there's only Dwight and Bynum....

Sabonis better than Cowens? Walton better than David Robinson? That list highlights what a complete joke ESPN is. Really, over the last decade, they've proudly shed themselves of any journalistic credibility they once had. And that's fine, they're an entertainment network, and have made millions being one. But when they try to do serious journalism, it's pretty hard to take them seriously.